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The third sector in unsettled times
insights from a qualitative longitudinal study
Rob Macmillan and Rebecca Taylor
Third Sector Research Centre
University of Birmingham
‘Change on the ground’
3rd
seminar in the SRA/TSRC series ‘The Third Sector in transition’
London, 9th
May2013
Summary
Part One: “The third sector in unsettled times”
•A great unsettlement?
•‘Real Times’ in a nutshell
•A field guide to a sector in transition
Part Two: “Below the radar in unsettled times”
•Tales from two villages….
•‘Sycamore’ and ‘Larch’
•Layers of community investment
A great unsettlement?
A third sector in transition?
•economic context – (dual) impact for the sector of recession, austerity
and cuts
•political context and priorities – the Coalition’s framing of a fiscal crisis;
the ‘Big Society’ as a (partial) decoupling of sector and state?
•‘Shaking-out’ - contraction and closure? enough ‘room’ for everyone?
•‘Shaking-up’ - organisations being more ‘enterprising’, demonstrating
value and greater consolidation
What is an ‘unsettlement’?
•Where resources, relationships, approaches and understandings are
called into question (from Fligstein and McAdam 2012)
•Continuity and change – compared to what?
‘Real Times’ in a nutshell…
Overall aim
• To establish, maintain and analyse a qualitative longitudinal sample of
third sector organisations, groups and activities
Research structure and timing
• Diverse set of 15 core case studies plus a range of related
‘complementary’ case studies
• Spring 2010 to Summer 2013: five waves of interviews, observations
and documentary analysis
Purpose and research questions
• Understanding how third sector activity operates in practice over time
• Fortunes, strategies, challenges and performance
• What happens, what matters, and understanding continuity and
change
Methodological/theoretical basis
• Growing interest in qualitative longitudinal research - snapshots and
moving pictures
• Taking time seriously – dimension and object of study
• Exploring the qualities of change – fast/slow; endogenous/exogenous,
etc.
• A ‘field’ based understanding of the third sector – context, relation and
‘room’
• Narrative profiles, storylines and ‘process tracing’
• The promise of ‘seeing things differently’?
The overall story so far…
A picture dominated by cuts for some…
• From anticipatory anxiety to the experience of public spending cuts
• Restructuring and redundancies
• Ongoing uncertainty about the scale and scope of cuts, and emerging
policy agendas
• Thwarted plans and contained ambitions
But not for all…
• Organisations planning growth
• Re-positioning and the development of new ventures and services
• Relative insulation from the changing context
Pre-Wave 1 • Turbulent recent history - stabilised
through new CEO and Chair from 2006
• Relatively secure funding through LA
grants and contracts, plus additional
specialist contracts and project grants
1
Mar-Jun ’10
Stable - Annual surplus to ‘weather the storm’
and service development; anticipating
outsourcing opportunities; bidding in
partnership for specialist contract
2
Feb-Apr ’11
Survival crisis – LA cuts basic funding;
campaign to save the service; transition
funding; re-commissioning for less;
competition amongst advice providers
3
Sept-Oct ’11
Reprieve through transition – successful bid
for less; redundancies and partial closure;
restructuring and changing role of volunteers;
Legal Aid changes
4
Jul-Aug ’12
Building new political alliances – new well
connected Chair; outsourcing; slow transition
– fundraising and stakeholder development
Wave
‘a large, local information, rights and
advice organisation ‘
‘Birch’
•High service demand
and pressure –
performance target
driven
•‘Us and them’ - local
political engagement
and influences
•Who’s in charge? -
leadership
•Crowded competitive
field
Pre-Wave 1 • Established 2004 – informal (unruly?)
drop-in sessions
• Five year foundation grant and LA funding
both awarded 2008 enables expansion and
paid staff
1
Apr-Jul ’10
Crisis - dismissal of founding coordinator; torn
loyalties but trustee board, staff, volunteers
and users mostly hold together; new
coordinator recruited
2
Dec ’10
Stabilisation and new developments – new
systems; re-branding; introduction of more
structured services; expansion/new projects
3
Aug-Oct ’11
Internal conflict – over new professionalised
identity; external reputation improves; new
business plan; LA structures and funding
changing
4
Aug-Sept ’12
Uncertain future – new offices; outcomes star;
6 months grant funding left; LA commissioning
process beginning; awareness of competition
Wave ‘A family support and parenting project’
‘Hawthorn’
•Liability of smallness? –
boundaries and
informality
•Who’s in charge? -
leadership
•Commissioning-ready?
•Capacity building –
business planning and
tendering
Uncertain futures
“we are a different animal now than we were 12 months ago. We would
not have focused on half the things that we’ve focused on. We’re not as
good as we need to be, and that’s what I mean about it takes a long time
to change.
“It’s been difficult to plan for….and that’s the big thing even at the
moment, that actually it is still difficult to see what’s in front of you.. The
plans have to be ‘we’re as flexible as we need to be to do what we need to
do’, you know… But it doesn’t necessarily feel comfortable really, that
you’re having to be so quick on your feet that actually you don’t want to
lay things down because that might slow you down, so let’s keep it open
and fluid”
Unfolding fields…
• Accommodating diversity, complexity, context and change…
• Strategic action fields (Fligstein and McAdam 2011, 2012)
“actors (who can be individual or collective) are attuned to and interact
with one another on the basis of shared (which is not to say
consensual) understandings about the purpose of the field,
relationships to others in the field (including who has power and why),
and the rules governing legitimate action in the field" (Fligstein and
McAdam 2012: 9).
• Multiple overlapping fields – organisations as/in fields (Emirbayer and
Johnson 2008)
• Sources of stability and change: perpetual struggle, interdependence,
sensitivity and proximate social fields – ‘a stone thrown in a still pond’
• Emergence, stability and unsettlement/crisis: of positions, norms and
institutions
1. Restructuring/redundancy
• Cutting costs
• Multiple agendas – necessary evils and organisational agendas
• Managerial restlessness
• Substitution between paid and unpaid work
“it’s some of the most painful stuff I’ve ever had to do, it’s absolutely
horrible, absolutely horrible. People come in and really look you in the
eye and tell you how desperately they want their job and they enjoy
their job and you just feel dreadful because, you know, it’s not about
whether you want your job or not…It’s about how much money we’ve
got and as much as you like your job, we’re not going to have a job for
everybody at the end of this and it’s shit, what can I tell you?”
2. Reconfiguration/merger
• An ongoing but contested theme in third sector conversation – ‘small
drops in millions of buckets’
• A preference for ‘sharing without merging’
• Acquisition as a growth strategy (housing group structures):
“the strategy around that has to be tacit and not overt so I don’t think
you go out there and openly pursue a kind of merger and acquisition
strategy”
• Lots of talk but little action (family support):
“so there’s quite a lot of potential basket cases out there if I’m honest,
and it wouldn’t be sensible for either charity to, the coming together of
two baskets is not a good idea”
3. Repositioning/rebranding
• Niche (in relation to others):
“you’ve got to be aware of what other people are doing. We certainly
try and stay close to key competitors and their tactics to understand
what the world is going to look like and we try and adjust our plans
accordingly. We do quite a lot of I suppose what the private sector
would call market analysis, you know, what’s the... horizon scanning,
another kind of phrase for it, what is the world going to look like, what
are the political directions, how do we position ourselves to work in that
way….”
• Branding as a strategy of affiliation and distinction from others/the past:
“where I want to be by the end of the year, which will be a completely
different organisation, a fresh new start and that kind of
professionalism will be seen by our stakeholders, which I think then by
the end of the following year we really would be in a good position to
have the data, have a proven track record of delivering quality services,
to go and get more funding”.
Conclusion
• A great unsettlement?
• Adjustment strategies over time to preserve/advance ‘room’…
• ‘Room’ as - the ‘space’ for an organisation to operate in a given field,
involving:
– an acknowledged role and position, based on a context-specific,
ongoing, sometimes awkward and contested accommodation
between similarly placed organisations operating in a given
catchment area, and
– a capacity to continue its activities to pursue its aims.
• Seeing things differently?
What we’re doing at the moment is planting all these seeds hoping that
they will grow and we’ll have a strong enough service come April that
we can deliver in this new regime…at the moment we’re still really in a
bit of no man’s land….
Further information
‘Real Times’ is being undertaken by a team of five researchers at TSRC:
Rob Macmillan, Malin Arvidson, Andri Soteri-Proctor, Rebecca Taylor and
Simon Teasdale.
•Seeing things differently? The promise of qualitative longitudinal research on
the third sector (TSRC WP56, Mar ’11)
•First Impressions: introducing the ‘Real Times’ third sector case studies (TSRC
WP67, Nov ’11)
•Making sense of the Big Society: perspectives from the third sector (TSRC
WP90, Jan ’13)
Forthcoming: The third sector in unsettled times – a field guide
www.tsrc.ac.uk
Part Two
Below the radar in unsettled times:
tales from two villages
• Grassroots not service delivery
• Our ‘BTR’ cases raise questions about…
– the differential impacts of wider social context
on the sector
– the nature of change, the role of class and
history, and sedimentary layers (Massey 1995, 2nd
ed)
Groups, events and associations
The
action
group
The parish
council
The WI
The
Football
club
The
landowner
The
celebrity
resident
The baby-
boomers
Social
housing
tenants
Sheltered
housing
residents
The
Sycamores
The village
fete
The pub
festival
Pre-Wave 1 • Relatively affluent village in the Southwest -
• Good infrastructure (shop, pub, church and primary
school) and close to a large market town
• Large group of active residents and a parish plan
• 2010 - what to do about the village hall and what to do
about a planned housing development ?
1
Jan-May ’10
Group established to
implement the action
points in the parish plan
Running since 2002 with
several organising
committees. Big themed
event for spring 2010 over two
days
2
Nov ‘10- Jan
’11
The group is formalised
with an AGM and elected
committee
3
June ’11
Group continue to work
on issues and a new plan
drafted in April
Village fete return to the usual
format and committees
4
Aug-Sept ’12
Resignations and elections
and slight shift in focus
but the group continues
The Sycamore games –
different event, new
committee, some dissenters
Wave ‘the action group’ ‘the village fete’
‘Sycamore’
•The same old
faces
•The landowner
and the village
•Us and them
Change
• A thriving village with ‘a spritely step about it now’, but
depends who you are
• Us and them – power struggle and conflict- interests
change, groups realign
• Slow moving, mostly small scale, a series of ups and
downs
• Layers of investment – generations of patronage,
land/capital, skills and expertise, time
Pre-Wave 1 • Relatively deprived ex-mining village
• Late 1990s Coalfields regeneration programmes –
housing and community economic development
• 2010 - What happens when the money runs out and
political will diminishes?
1
Apr-Aug ’10
Struggling with few
volunteers; awaiting
funding bids
Lease for land; building
networks
2
Feb ’11
Unsuccessful funding bids;
winter damage
Severe winter slows progress;
volunteers and placements
3
Aug-Sept ’11
In arrears - rent
negotiations; moving out
and closing down?
Selling first produce; funding
bids unsuccessful
4
Aug-Sept ’12
Fundraising auction;
operating on reduced
scale in smaller building
Successful funding bids secure
staff; summer fun day draws
the crowds
Wave ‘Heritage Centre’
‘Horticultural Social
Enterprise’
‘Larch’
•Brown hair and
grey hair
•Dwindling
infrastructure
support
•Who pays for
space?
•Movers and
shakers
Layers of investment
Doreen Massey argues that local areas:
“are products of long and varied histories. Different economic activities and
forms of social organisation have come and gone, established their
dominance, lingered on and later died away…the structure of local economies
can be seen as the product of the combination of ‘layers’, of the successive
imposition over the years of new rounds of investment, new forms of
activity”
(Massey 1995: 114, emphasis added).
•The past shapes the present, though not in some deterministic way
•Complex historical outcomes are not just economic:
“The layers of history which are sedimented over time are not just economic;
there are also cultural, political and ideological strata, layers which also have
their local specificities” (Massey 1995: 116).
Layering – a comparison
‘Larch’
The here and now:
•A struggling village?
•Relatively deprived
•Core group of activists; us/them
•Fundraising and enterprise
•Challenging parish council
A product of:
•Coal-mining and aftermath
•Coalfields regeneration
•Disinvestment in community
development
•Class and ‘movers and shakers’
‘Sycamore’
The here and now:
•A thriving village?
•Relatively affluent
•Core group of activists; us/them
•Fundraising events
•Facilitative parish council
A product of:
•Agricultural history
•Importance of landownership
•No area-based regeneration
•Class - resources, skills and
connections
Thinking about time and community
•Sedimentary layers of (community) investment of:
o money, time, energy, mobilisation, connection…
•and perhaps now ‘disinvestment’ (with differential impacts)…?
Community development…
•‘takes time’ (but how long is needed?)
•leaves legacies (but how strong are these?)

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The third sector in unsettled times, rob macmillan and rebecca taylor, sra seminar, may 2013

  • 1. The third sector in unsettled times insights from a qualitative longitudinal study Rob Macmillan and Rebecca Taylor Third Sector Research Centre University of Birmingham ‘Change on the ground’ 3rd seminar in the SRA/TSRC series ‘The Third Sector in transition’ London, 9th May2013
  • 2. Summary Part One: “The third sector in unsettled times” •A great unsettlement? •‘Real Times’ in a nutshell •A field guide to a sector in transition Part Two: “Below the radar in unsettled times” •Tales from two villages…. •‘Sycamore’ and ‘Larch’ •Layers of community investment
  • 3. A great unsettlement? A third sector in transition? •economic context – (dual) impact for the sector of recession, austerity and cuts •political context and priorities – the Coalition’s framing of a fiscal crisis; the ‘Big Society’ as a (partial) decoupling of sector and state? •‘Shaking-out’ - contraction and closure? enough ‘room’ for everyone? •‘Shaking-up’ - organisations being more ‘enterprising’, demonstrating value and greater consolidation What is an ‘unsettlement’? •Where resources, relationships, approaches and understandings are called into question (from Fligstein and McAdam 2012) •Continuity and change – compared to what?
  • 4. ‘Real Times’ in a nutshell… Overall aim • To establish, maintain and analyse a qualitative longitudinal sample of third sector organisations, groups and activities Research structure and timing • Diverse set of 15 core case studies plus a range of related ‘complementary’ case studies • Spring 2010 to Summer 2013: five waves of interviews, observations and documentary analysis Purpose and research questions • Understanding how third sector activity operates in practice over time • Fortunes, strategies, challenges and performance • What happens, what matters, and understanding continuity and change
  • 5. Methodological/theoretical basis • Growing interest in qualitative longitudinal research - snapshots and moving pictures • Taking time seriously – dimension and object of study • Exploring the qualities of change – fast/slow; endogenous/exogenous, etc. • A ‘field’ based understanding of the third sector – context, relation and ‘room’ • Narrative profiles, storylines and ‘process tracing’ • The promise of ‘seeing things differently’?
  • 6. The overall story so far… A picture dominated by cuts for some… • From anticipatory anxiety to the experience of public spending cuts • Restructuring and redundancies • Ongoing uncertainty about the scale and scope of cuts, and emerging policy agendas • Thwarted plans and contained ambitions But not for all… • Organisations planning growth • Re-positioning and the development of new ventures and services • Relative insulation from the changing context
  • 7. Pre-Wave 1 • Turbulent recent history - stabilised through new CEO and Chair from 2006 • Relatively secure funding through LA grants and contracts, plus additional specialist contracts and project grants 1 Mar-Jun ’10 Stable - Annual surplus to ‘weather the storm’ and service development; anticipating outsourcing opportunities; bidding in partnership for specialist contract 2 Feb-Apr ’11 Survival crisis – LA cuts basic funding; campaign to save the service; transition funding; re-commissioning for less; competition amongst advice providers 3 Sept-Oct ’11 Reprieve through transition – successful bid for less; redundancies and partial closure; restructuring and changing role of volunteers; Legal Aid changes 4 Jul-Aug ’12 Building new political alliances – new well connected Chair; outsourcing; slow transition – fundraising and stakeholder development Wave ‘a large, local information, rights and advice organisation ‘ ‘Birch’ •High service demand and pressure – performance target driven •‘Us and them’ - local political engagement and influences •Who’s in charge? - leadership •Crowded competitive field
  • 8. Pre-Wave 1 • Established 2004 – informal (unruly?) drop-in sessions • Five year foundation grant and LA funding both awarded 2008 enables expansion and paid staff 1 Apr-Jul ’10 Crisis - dismissal of founding coordinator; torn loyalties but trustee board, staff, volunteers and users mostly hold together; new coordinator recruited 2 Dec ’10 Stabilisation and new developments – new systems; re-branding; introduction of more structured services; expansion/new projects 3 Aug-Oct ’11 Internal conflict – over new professionalised identity; external reputation improves; new business plan; LA structures and funding changing 4 Aug-Sept ’12 Uncertain future – new offices; outcomes star; 6 months grant funding left; LA commissioning process beginning; awareness of competition Wave ‘A family support and parenting project’ ‘Hawthorn’ •Liability of smallness? – boundaries and informality •Who’s in charge? - leadership •Commissioning-ready? •Capacity building – business planning and tendering
  • 9. Uncertain futures “we are a different animal now than we were 12 months ago. We would not have focused on half the things that we’ve focused on. We’re not as good as we need to be, and that’s what I mean about it takes a long time to change. “It’s been difficult to plan for….and that’s the big thing even at the moment, that actually it is still difficult to see what’s in front of you.. The plans have to be ‘we’re as flexible as we need to be to do what we need to do’, you know… But it doesn’t necessarily feel comfortable really, that you’re having to be so quick on your feet that actually you don’t want to lay things down because that might slow you down, so let’s keep it open and fluid”
  • 10. Unfolding fields… • Accommodating diversity, complexity, context and change… • Strategic action fields (Fligstein and McAdam 2011, 2012) “actors (who can be individual or collective) are attuned to and interact with one another on the basis of shared (which is not to say consensual) understandings about the purpose of the field, relationships to others in the field (including who has power and why), and the rules governing legitimate action in the field" (Fligstein and McAdam 2012: 9). • Multiple overlapping fields – organisations as/in fields (Emirbayer and Johnson 2008) • Sources of stability and change: perpetual struggle, interdependence, sensitivity and proximate social fields – ‘a stone thrown in a still pond’ • Emergence, stability and unsettlement/crisis: of positions, norms and institutions
  • 11. 1. Restructuring/redundancy • Cutting costs • Multiple agendas – necessary evils and organisational agendas • Managerial restlessness • Substitution between paid and unpaid work “it’s some of the most painful stuff I’ve ever had to do, it’s absolutely horrible, absolutely horrible. People come in and really look you in the eye and tell you how desperately they want their job and they enjoy their job and you just feel dreadful because, you know, it’s not about whether you want your job or not…It’s about how much money we’ve got and as much as you like your job, we’re not going to have a job for everybody at the end of this and it’s shit, what can I tell you?”
  • 12. 2. Reconfiguration/merger • An ongoing but contested theme in third sector conversation – ‘small drops in millions of buckets’ • A preference for ‘sharing without merging’ • Acquisition as a growth strategy (housing group structures): “the strategy around that has to be tacit and not overt so I don’t think you go out there and openly pursue a kind of merger and acquisition strategy” • Lots of talk but little action (family support): “so there’s quite a lot of potential basket cases out there if I’m honest, and it wouldn’t be sensible for either charity to, the coming together of two baskets is not a good idea”
  • 13. 3. Repositioning/rebranding • Niche (in relation to others): “you’ve got to be aware of what other people are doing. We certainly try and stay close to key competitors and their tactics to understand what the world is going to look like and we try and adjust our plans accordingly. We do quite a lot of I suppose what the private sector would call market analysis, you know, what’s the... horizon scanning, another kind of phrase for it, what is the world going to look like, what are the political directions, how do we position ourselves to work in that way….” • Branding as a strategy of affiliation and distinction from others/the past: “where I want to be by the end of the year, which will be a completely different organisation, a fresh new start and that kind of professionalism will be seen by our stakeholders, which I think then by the end of the following year we really would be in a good position to have the data, have a proven track record of delivering quality services, to go and get more funding”.
  • 14. Conclusion • A great unsettlement? • Adjustment strategies over time to preserve/advance ‘room’… • ‘Room’ as - the ‘space’ for an organisation to operate in a given field, involving: – an acknowledged role and position, based on a context-specific, ongoing, sometimes awkward and contested accommodation between similarly placed organisations operating in a given catchment area, and – a capacity to continue its activities to pursue its aims. • Seeing things differently? What we’re doing at the moment is planting all these seeds hoping that they will grow and we’ll have a strong enough service come April that we can deliver in this new regime…at the moment we’re still really in a bit of no man’s land….
  • 15. Further information ‘Real Times’ is being undertaken by a team of five researchers at TSRC: Rob Macmillan, Malin Arvidson, Andri Soteri-Proctor, Rebecca Taylor and Simon Teasdale. •Seeing things differently? The promise of qualitative longitudinal research on the third sector (TSRC WP56, Mar ’11) •First Impressions: introducing the ‘Real Times’ third sector case studies (TSRC WP67, Nov ’11) •Making sense of the Big Society: perspectives from the third sector (TSRC WP90, Jan ’13) Forthcoming: The third sector in unsettled times – a field guide www.tsrc.ac.uk
  • 16. Part Two Below the radar in unsettled times: tales from two villages • Grassroots not service delivery • Our ‘BTR’ cases raise questions about… – the differential impacts of wider social context on the sector – the nature of change, the role of class and history, and sedimentary layers (Massey 1995, 2nd ed)
  • 17. Groups, events and associations The action group The parish council The WI The Football club The landowner The celebrity resident The baby- boomers Social housing tenants Sheltered housing residents The Sycamores The village fete The pub festival
  • 18. Pre-Wave 1 • Relatively affluent village in the Southwest - • Good infrastructure (shop, pub, church and primary school) and close to a large market town • Large group of active residents and a parish plan • 2010 - what to do about the village hall and what to do about a planned housing development ? 1 Jan-May ’10 Group established to implement the action points in the parish plan Running since 2002 with several organising committees. Big themed event for spring 2010 over two days 2 Nov ‘10- Jan ’11 The group is formalised with an AGM and elected committee 3 June ’11 Group continue to work on issues and a new plan drafted in April Village fete return to the usual format and committees 4 Aug-Sept ’12 Resignations and elections and slight shift in focus but the group continues The Sycamore games – different event, new committee, some dissenters Wave ‘the action group’ ‘the village fete’ ‘Sycamore’ •The same old faces •The landowner and the village •Us and them
  • 19. Change • A thriving village with ‘a spritely step about it now’, but depends who you are • Us and them – power struggle and conflict- interests change, groups realign • Slow moving, mostly small scale, a series of ups and downs • Layers of investment – generations of patronage, land/capital, skills and expertise, time
  • 20. Pre-Wave 1 • Relatively deprived ex-mining village • Late 1990s Coalfields regeneration programmes – housing and community economic development • 2010 - What happens when the money runs out and political will diminishes? 1 Apr-Aug ’10 Struggling with few volunteers; awaiting funding bids Lease for land; building networks 2 Feb ’11 Unsuccessful funding bids; winter damage Severe winter slows progress; volunteers and placements 3 Aug-Sept ’11 In arrears - rent negotiations; moving out and closing down? Selling first produce; funding bids unsuccessful 4 Aug-Sept ’12 Fundraising auction; operating on reduced scale in smaller building Successful funding bids secure staff; summer fun day draws the crowds Wave ‘Heritage Centre’ ‘Horticultural Social Enterprise’ ‘Larch’ •Brown hair and grey hair •Dwindling infrastructure support •Who pays for space? •Movers and shakers
  • 21. Layers of investment Doreen Massey argues that local areas: “are products of long and varied histories. Different economic activities and forms of social organisation have come and gone, established their dominance, lingered on and later died away…the structure of local economies can be seen as the product of the combination of ‘layers’, of the successive imposition over the years of new rounds of investment, new forms of activity” (Massey 1995: 114, emphasis added). •The past shapes the present, though not in some deterministic way •Complex historical outcomes are not just economic: “The layers of history which are sedimented over time are not just economic; there are also cultural, political and ideological strata, layers which also have their local specificities” (Massey 1995: 116).
  • 22. Layering – a comparison ‘Larch’ The here and now: •A struggling village? •Relatively deprived •Core group of activists; us/them •Fundraising and enterprise •Challenging parish council A product of: •Coal-mining and aftermath •Coalfields regeneration •Disinvestment in community development •Class and ‘movers and shakers’ ‘Sycamore’ The here and now: •A thriving village? •Relatively affluent •Core group of activists; us/them •Fundraising events •Facilitative parish council A product of: •Agricultural history •Importance of landownership •No area-based regeneration •Class - resources, skills and connections
  • 23. Thinking about time and community •Sedimentary layers of (community) investment of: o money, time, energy, mobilisation, connection… •and perhaps now ‘disinvestment’ (with differential impacts)…? Community development… •‘takes time’ (but how long is needed?) •leaves legacies (but how strong are these?)