One of our recent reports Social Media in Indian Healthcare Scenario got featured got featured in Healthcare Biz India Magazine with quotes from my interview. http://www.soravjain.com/social-media-india-healthcare-hospitals-report

1. Center Stage
Social Media in Healthcare
A Potent Marketing
Weapon
Social Media is the latest Buzz word in Indian healthcare these days. After having
bitten various industries, it is now time for the bug to bite Indian healthcare industry
as well. Already numerous healthcare players have adopted the medium to spread
information and awareness about a range of topics. And increasingly, this number is
going up.
By: Jayata Sharma-Sand
S
ocial media can be
used not just to spread
awareness about a public
health topic, but by doing so,
you also end up doing some
real good branding for your
own organisation. Most of the
times, social media is used for
spreading ‘social’ messages.
However, this media is proving
to be a subtle but effective way
of marketing and promoting
one’s organisation, without
sounding or doing ‘in your
face’ activities.
Social media is a
conglomeration of public
platforms, which means if you
place yourself out there in the
open, be ready to get bouquets
and brickbats both. Hence, as
I read somewhere, in case of
social media, it is important to
‘first clean your house and then
invite guests’.
The article is an overview of
how social media is percolating
in the Indian healthcare
industry and in various
sections. That’s why we have
18 Health Biz India October 2013
tried to bring in experts from
as many healthcare verticals
as possible to try and present
a wholesome picture of who
thinks what.
There is no doubt that social
media has fundamentally
changed the patient to patient
and patient to provider
communications relationship
for the healthcare industry. The
advent of transparent, real time
social media communications
platforms that allow open
and honest dialogue presents
a wealth of opportunities for
the industry to capitalise on
positive patient sentiment
and build a trusted support
community to actively engage
with. Many healthcare entities
are also using social media to
build and cultivate a team of
patient evangelists who can
be subsequently leveraged to
spread good will and build
brand equity to help maintain
trust and confidence in health
care services.
A preferred marketing tool
Social media is the best way to
reach out to your customers.
You can reach them easily
via social accounts and if
the data shared with the
community is unique and
beneficial then it can be viral
too. A major chunk of the
population is active on the
social media platforms. “This
indulgence can be leveraged
by the healthcare industry
in spreading awareness and
marketing of their products.
Platforms like Facebook give
user demographics also which
makes it further defined and
focussed for the healthcare
brands,” says Mr. Amol
Naikawadi, Joint Managing
Director, Indus Health Plus.
His company is one of the
most-active ones on social
media platforms and their
initiatives are highly ‘liked’ and
appreciated by their customers.
Healthcare professionals can
also create educational content
to be shared across social
media that will help accurately
inform consumers about health
related issues and out shine
misleading information. It’s

2. very convenient to have social
media guidelines in place for
your health care facility to
ensure everyone is on the same
page, your staff is aware of
limitations to their actions
on social media and that a
systematic strategy is in place
for how social media should be
run across your organisation.
“Cancer patients always
want to find out about other
people’s experiences and talk
to them. With social media, it
becomes easier to connect. We
even chat with local doctors in
remote regions and give them
a second opinion in a matter of
hours. It is a great networking
and resource management
tool. The dissemination
of information is ‘fast and
furious’ with social media,”
says Dr. Ajaikumar, Chairman
& CEO, HealthCare Global
Enterprises Ltd.
“The wide reach of this
medium and the ease with
which people can access it
make social media a preferred
tool. In today’s fast paced
era, where time has a tag
value, social media helps in
reaching out to the remotest
locations, at a phenomenal
speed conveniently. Moreover,
people can share their
experiences that make this
medium even more personal
and believable,” believes Murli
Sundrani, Business Director,
BD Medical - Pharmaceutical
Systems.
Today, most of the
smartphone owners too have
at least one health app on
their phone. Exercise, diet,
and weight apps are the most
popular types. Today most
of the patients too prefer
researching online about their
ailments. If the context of a
group or community online
is high quality and curated,
www.healthbizindia.in
Center Stage
then many trust that crowd
sourcing of information from
other like mind individuals is
reliable. “Social media can be
a vehicle to help scale both
positive and negative word
of mouth, which makes it
an important channel for an
individual or organisation in
the health care industry to
focus on in order to attract
and retain patients,” says Mr.
On social media
things go viral only
when something
extraordinary
happens
Dr. Alok Roy,
Chairman, Medica
Superspecialty Hospital
Naikawadi.
According to the study by
Geonetric, four out of five
users web users look for health
related information online.
With more and more patients
turning to online for medical
advice, it is imperative that
healthcare professionals and
hospitals connect and add
their credible voices to such
conversations. Social media
offers the perfect platform to
engage with patients, online
users as well as with other
industry experts like doctors
and physicians.
“It plays a vital role in
making active conversations
happen between the healthcare
industry and web users alike.
Patients now share medical
experiences and seek opinions
on symptoms, ailments making
it mandatory for healthcare
brands to listen in to the
conversation and add value,
take appropriate action,” says
Jasrita Dhir, Deputy General
Manager – Marketing, Fortis
Healthcare Limited.
The one reason which
everyone keeps their finger
on is the cost effectiveness of
using social media. It helps
business to reach with the
budget they have in mind.
Additionally, a two-way
communication is easily
possible by using this medium.
“Unlike traditional form of
advertisements, the ads and
engagement practise here are
very much two-way from
brands to consumers and from
consumers back to brand in
real time,” says Sorav Jain,
Thinker-in-Chief, EchoVme,
a digital marketing firm that
specialises in integrated digital
marketing consulting, services
is the most
preferred social
media
marketing
platform
for healthcare
players
Health Biz India October 2013 19

3. Center Stage
concerns, and this is where
Nova as a healthcare leader
provides value to its audience:
by listening to what they
share, and wherever possible,
provides its expertise to solve
their health-related concerns,”
says VP Kamath, Group Chief
Operating Officer, Nova
Medical Centers.
There is no doubt that
Social Media is considered
and training.
Social media also helps
bring innovation in marketing.
Many brands love to showcase
innovation in marketing and
adapting social media for
business is innovation.
Many experts believe that
social media makes it possible
for companies to reach out to
their audience in their space
of comfort, where they are
at ease; communicating with
people they trust and enjoy
interacting with. “People use
these platforms to share their
experiences as well as their
Social media should
not be overused.
After a while,
patients should
listen to their
doctors
Dr. Ajaikumar,
Chairman & CEO, HealthCare
Global Enterprises
the in-thing now in marketing
and owing to the boom
the healthcare industry is
witnessing today, many
hospitals and healthcare
organisations are learning
and eagerly looking forward
to marketing their services on
social media. “This thirst for
knowledge in the industry led
us to design workshops on
social media marketing across
the country with Mumbai,
Delhi, Ahmadabad, Pune and
Kolkata in the pipeline after
Bangalore and Chennai.
However, hospitals in
India are still on the verge of
understanding social media
and its importance and
only a handful of hospitals
are actually using social
media techniques for their
promotion,” says Paniel
Jayanth, Founder & Chief
Strategist, AMEN, a healthcare
events organisation. His
company has been conducting
various workshops on social
media and healthcare recently.
“Social media is one of
the preferred medium of
marketing, but not the most
favourite. However, it is
important to engage in this
media as there is significant
impact seen. India has a
substantial number of younger
Social Media Activities by Healthcare Players
Fortis Hospitals
On the social space, Fortis has been extremely active. They have
just completed a successful World Heart Day campaign wherein they
encouraged people to look after their heart through a friendly route
of ‘Karo Apne Dil Se Dosti’. They asked them to take a pledge on
Facebook as well as offered a hugely discounted health checkup
package to gauge their heart condition. The campaign has received
more than 7,000 visits to the microsite as well as trended nationally
on Twitter. They also recently finished a campaign for the Fortis
Mumbai arm which promoted a song composed by Lesle Lewis
(Mumbai Ki Dhadkan) that asked people to take care of their heart.
The song received more than 20,000 views on YouTube and more
20 Health Biz India October 2013
than 21,000 song plays on the Saavn platform.
Last year too on World Heart Day, Fortis had undertaken a
large-scale CSR activity exhorting the citizens of Delhi & NCR to
walk into their nearest Fortis facility to get a free cholesterol check
done. More than 18,000 free blood tests were done in a single
day and Fortis Healthcare ended up setting a new Guinness World
Records Record at Fortis Escorts Heart Institute. They also ran a
CSR campaign for Baby Shriya suffering from rare Gaucher’s disease
encouraging the twitter universe to come forward and tweet for her.
For every tweet, Fortis Foundation contributed Rs. 10 to her care
and by the end of the campaign they had more than 14,000 tweets
in support of the baby’s treatment.

4. people so targeting them
via social media becomes
easy. Also, healthcare is now
moving from communicable
diseases to lifestyle diseases.
And these platforms are ideal
for disseminating information
on such topics,” says Dr.
Alok Roy, Chairman, Medica
Superspecialty Hospital.
Also, a large number of
people requiring medical
information are mostly in the
older age group. “Most elder
citizens are less technology
savvy and hence only using
social media as a marketing
tool is a mistake. Though there
is no denying that it is ‘one’
of the potentially important
weapon,” says Kaushik
Sen, CEO & Co-Founder,
Healthspring Medical Centers.
Since you can
target town specific
people, social media
is useful even for
local and regional
brands
Dr. A Velumani,
CEO, Thyrocare Technologies
www.healthbizindia.in
Center Stage
most novel way.
“Since the turnaround time
to send and receive information
is minimal, therefore regular
communication with instant
results help you build a
stronger relationship with
existing customers. Today one
can reach millions of people all
around the world. Social media
platform has the ability to
target particular groups - many
forms of social media allow
businesses to target specific
groups, often in particular
locations. With less or no cost
incurred in many cases, it’s a
complete win-win situation,”
avers Mr. Naikawadi.
Most experts believe that
social media surely is beneficial
for an organisation’s business
ecosystem. “Once a business
owns social channel for
Making business sense
We have now comfortably
established that social media,
as opposed to other forms of
marketing, is a cost-effective
method. Probably, that’s a
major reason why it makes
business sense to invest in this
form of marketing.
One can interact and
outreach a larger spectrum
of population through this
platform. One can easily keep
a track on not just the clients
but competitors, business
associates and lots more.
Social Media presents great
marketing opportunities for
business of all sizes. You can
use social media to promote
the name of your brand and
business. One can tell the
customers about the goods and
services. Through a large traffic
coming in, it’s convenient to
have an opinion poll to know
what customers think about
your business. Since majority
of the population is internet
savvy, social media helps you
attract new customers in the
Indus Health Plus
Indus has focussed all their content on two way interaction. Since
the concept of preventive health care is new, initially they decided
to explain the very essence of the preventive health check-ups
that are provided at Indus. Secondly, the urban population which
in majority faces such diseases is active on Facebook, hence they
decided to push content that engages them. Unique stuff like food
facts, quizzes, information about such diseases etc. is posted on
the page. They also put light content like “Dadi Ma ke Nuskhe” to
engage audience.
Besides these regular surveys, campaigns and contests help the
community to remain intact with the idea of going for a Preventive
Health Package and entertain them as well. Indus has tried to
target specific age groups via Facebook ads. Recently, they ran a
campaign called Listen to your Heart on World Heart Day where
viewers could participate in an online survey to know their heart
score (heart’s health).
The idea behind doing many such activities is to keep the
customers engaged and spread the awareness of prevention and
caution for health to masses at a larger scale.
The online doctor chat helps the visitors to ask and have
access to any kind of medical query. Indus also has a regular blog
where articles in sync with latest developments in the preventive
healthcare industry are posted.
Health Biz India October 2013 21

5. Center Stage
business communication they
can perform lead generation,
customer service, recruiting,
brand awareness, crowdsourcing and various other
practise,” informs Mr. Jain.
Healthcare is all about
people. And if you want to
connect with people and be
part of their community, you
need to be present where the
community is. Since the reach
of this media is phenomenal,
making it a vehicle of choice
for healthcare marketers is
quite logical.
“The medium also allows
seeding content that can
Social media must
be used with utmost
sincerity, without
hyperbole or sales
pitches
VP Kamath,
Group COO, Nova Medical
Centers
be updated and modified
frequently. It is highly
interactive and is more
engaging because of the timely
responses from the audience.
Social media is changing the
nature of interactions among
people and organisations –
because of rapid transmission,
user generated content and a
two way open conversation.
Insights from social media
might offer feedback
on products or services,
along with new ideas for
innovation,” says Mr.
Sundrani.
Considering that setting up
a Facebook, Twitter or any
other Social Media account
is free of cost, it definitely
makes business sense. Through
targeted campaigns it’s
possible to garner business
leads through social media.
“However, an important
aspect is the way a campaign
is designed and targeted to the
right target group as a part
of the overall communication
strategy. The moment you try
to hard sell anything on social
media, your response rates are
sure to nosedive. Apart from
revenue, social media provides
a tremendous opportunity to
listen and respond to online
feedback as well as connect
with the online community.
What brands have to realise is
that social media is a two way
street, it shouldn’t be treated as
a corporate communications
mouthpiece wherein one-way
dissemination of information
happens,” opines Ms. Dhir.
However, there is no denying
that social media opens up
the possibility of creating
online brand loyal advocates
who might have had a great
experience with your service
and would recommend the
Social Media Activities by Healthcare Players
NOVA Medical Centers
Nova actively engages with over 40,000 members on a daily basis,
across various social media platforms such as Facebook, Twitter, You
Tube, etc. They have seen considerable growth in terms of the number
of members as well as the quality of engagement with their audience.
A lot of NOVA’s conversations with its audience is based on queries
and second opinions from NOVA’s experts. Nova carries out activities
such as interactive information sessions with its experts, live surgery
webcasts, specialty awareness weeks, sharing stories of patients’
journey to recovery, as well as daily health and wellness advice.
22 Health Biz India October 2013
Media Superspecialty Hospital
The hospital is doing everything possible under the roof of social
media. It tries and engages people and have discussions and
forums. Till now, their most successful campaign has been on
Facebook about Women Drivers in Healthcare.
Medica has five women valet parking attendants with them, whom
they had saved from the slums and trained as drivers. They ran a
competition for the ‘Best Woman Driver in Healthcare’ which saw
participation from other healthcare players as well and was
hugely popular.

6. same to their peers.
“If one is present across a
vast geography, it makes a
better business sense. But since
you can target them town
specific even for local and
regional brands it is useful,”
says Dr. A Velumani, CEO,
Thyrocare Technologies Ltd.
Organisations around
the world constantly face
the challenge of building a
lasting relationship with their
consumers to enable a sale,
retain customers, and hope
that they spread the word to
their friends and grow the
firm’s consumer base. This is
especially challenging when
you are a healthcare provider;
it’s not easy to convince
someone to put their lives in
the hands of someone they
don’t know. “Social media in
this area is an effective medium
for us to build that trust and
credibility, increase awareness
of our services among our
audience, and finally reinforce
our thought leadership so that
patients recognise Nova as
a trusted source of medical
information and treatment,
ultimately making business
sense,” says Mr. Kamath.
Almost every expert echoes
the thought that social media
provides for a platform where
you get to engage with your
customer and understand his/
www.healthbizindia.in
Center Stage
her requirements and needs.
And that it has an enormous
potential for relationship
building in the long run
which is the goal of every
organisation.
“Facebook for example,
provides an amazing platform
to showcase your hospital
services and also update
friends and communities on
health tips, which in-turn helps
enhance hospital business.
There are over 72 million
Social Media users in India and
guess that answers it all,” says
Mr. Jayanth of AMEN.
However, it is important
that all healthcare business
organisations should keep their
objectives right and should aim
at achieving desired results in
an elongated duration than
aiming at quick ROIs. “Social
Media is not a sales channel
and it is a relationship building
tool so ‘relationship-building’
must be the key highlight point
of your social media objectives
and the ROI will eventually
happen,” advices Mr. Jain.
Pros & cons
Social media, like any other
marketing tool, has its own
pros and cons. Let us find out
what forms both the angels
and the demons.
Pros of social media
Indus Health Plus runs regular campaigns through Facebook to engage its audience and
bring in business
• Online marketing reaches
people from all over the
world and allows your
business to be open 24
hours a day 7 days a week.
It allows your customers to
browse your website and
do their shopping at their
convenience especially since
Social media can
be a vehicle to help
scale both positive
and negative word
of mouth
Amol Naikawadi,
Joint Managing Director, Indus
Health Plus
Health Biz India October 2013 23

7. Center Stage
industry.
• Opportunities of listening for
brands and giving customers
a surprise call to solve their
concern, sentimental analysis
of customer’s reaction on
social media on a new
product launch, advance
target of advertisements
People sharing
experiences make
this medium
more personal &
believable
there are different time
zones. Shopping here refers
to preventive healthcare
packages offered by various
companies and hospitals, or
fixing appointments, or even
gathering information about
your organisation.
• Using conventional media
such as newspapers,
magazines, and television
can dip into your
pocketbook. As you promote
your business through social
media sites you are spending
less money and reaching out
to more people.
• It is the best possible wordof-mouth advertising you
can get for absolutely free.
• There are no large
warehouses to build in order
to keep stock on hand as
you can order stock, as the
demand requires. This keeps
inventory overhead low.
• The more likes, circles
and +’s you receive the
more positive ratings your
online business will receive.
“People like to see positive
24 Health Biz India October 2013
signs and the more positive
ratings and followers you
are getting the trustworthier
you and your business will
appear on the Internet,” says
Mr. Naikawadi.
• Social media has high reach
especially in terms of viral
campaigns.
• Organisations that actively
use social media to
communicate are perceived
to be more human, which
is critical in healthcare
Murli Sundrani,
Business Director, BD Medical
Systems
on the basis of gender,
sexuality, marital status, age
group, interests and more,
opportunity to make a brand
globally popular.
Cons of social media
• Social media marketing
places high demands on
your time. Content must be
created, edited, approved
and published; comments
The percentage of hospitals with social media icons integrated on their official websites

9. Center Stage
Gauging the
Impact of Social
Media Initiatives
Much information is made
available without proper
documentation or evidence.
Many organisations spend
large sums on this channel,
but have little idea on
the impact of such digital
initiatives. To overcome this
challenge, many engagement
efforts are being used for
gathering feedback and
response. “Loyal communities”
for their products and services
are being created to measure
the success of this medium
and keep them engaged for
a long period of time and
reward them for their loyalty
and support. Companies
are looking for opportunities
to educate the customer
community about health
benefits, processes, and
programs while being vigilant
about protecting patient
privacy.
26 Health Biz India October 2013
Brands love
to showcase
innovation in
marketing on social
media
Sorav Jain,
Thinker-in-Chief, EchoVme
must be responded to
and sites and pages must
be maintained. You can
alleviate these demands by
outsourcing for a fee.
• Social media marketing
places high demands on your
talent. It can be difficult to
constantly come up with
innovative exciting content
that interests a variety
of readers and without
relevance; your efforts will
be wasted.
• You lose some control of
your marketing efforts.
Anything you publish is
up for grabs, and others
can easily criticise you.
Publish backlash is the last
thing you want your social
media marketing to spawn,
and without the ability
to control comments or
even what your own team
is publishing you open
yourself up for potential
negatives. “Your return on
investment is delayed. Social
media marketing efforts are
not likely to earn immense
popularity overnight, so you
must be willing to be in it for
the long haul if you decide
to launch a social media
marketing campaign,” warns
Mr. Naikawadi.
• Most platforms aren’t
owned by you so changes
in algorithms or shift in
user preference for a social
network might affect your
investments, time and effort
in them
• Social Media users can be
highly fickle and getting
repeat mentions or visits may
be a challenge.
• Once you highlight yourself
on social media, too much of
expectation is raised in the
minds of customers, which
if not met, can result in
backlashing.
• Provides very little control
over what others say about
an organisation, hence
probable risk of a PR
disaster and damage to a
brand’s image.
• Not valuing the customers’
feedback can result in a gang
bash.
Playing safe
As mentioned earlier, social
media is an open medium and
as established by the ‘cons’
above, as a healthcare player,
you may be faced with some
difficult times. So, what can be
done about it? Well, probably
some safe-play can come I
handy. Let’s see what the
experts have to say to this.
Mr. Naikawadi suggests
that apart from unique content
posting one should also take
help of experts in order to
resolve queries on the page.
Social networking sites

10. like Facebook and YouTube
can be powerful platforms to
deliver and receive healthcare
information, especially for
patients and caregivers who
are increasingly going online to
connect and share experiences
with others with similar
medical issues or concerns.
However, these sites may lack
patient-centered information
and can also be sources of
misleading information that
could potentially do more
harm than good. Social media
is an important resource for
patients and their caregivers
who are facing important
treatment decisions after being
diagnosed with a medical
condition.
“One of the best resources
for patients ideally would
be physicians who also
have health conditions and
who can post a personal
experience video on YouTube
for instance, that would not
only be medically correct,
credible and trustful but would
also contain that first-hand
experience that patients with
a disease like IBD really crave
and search for online,” informs
Mr. Naikawadi.
The virtual aspect of
social media enhances
communications by creating a
comfortable, often anonymous,
environment for engaging
and exchanging information.
“This can warn anyone to be
cautious in ensuring that no
www.healthbizindia.in
misleading claims and benefits
are promised or stated that
can lead to sharing of incorrect
information and unrealistic
expectations for the users.
Trust and connecting with
the people providing care will
remain vital to healthcare
communication in this space,”
says Mr. Sundrani.
The trust and
communication factor plays
an important role, especially in
open media. “If you have irate
customers, they will anyway
find a way to complain about
you everywhere. If you have
own platform, the concern
reaches you directly and you
can take steps to rectify your
mistakes. Hence, one aspect
of playing safe is to simply be
present on these platforms,”
says Mr. Sen.
Saying or even implying
something wrong on social
media may spread like a
wildfire ending in disastrous
implications. “Hence,
disclosure of any trade
secret, intellectual property
of a patient’s private health
information should not be
disclosed in the social space.
Do not make statements about
anyone when it’s false and
could lead to legal action.
Never discriminate; even one
If you try to hard
sell on social media,
your response rates
are sure to nosedive
Jasrita Dhir,
Deputy GM - Marketing, Fortis
Healthcare
The industry has
only scratched the
surface of social
media and need to
explore more
Kaushik Sen,
CEO & Co-Founder, Healthspring
Medical Centers
Health Biz India October 2013 27

11. Center Stage
A thirst for
knowledge in the
industry led us to
design workshops
on social media
marketing
Paniel Jayanth,
Founder & Chief Strategist,
AMEN
28 Health Biz India October 2013
offensive tweet could bring
down the curtains on your
reputation and could damage
your online brand name for a
long time,” advices Ms. Dhir.
“Social media to general
mass is not a good healthcare
more. Social media focused
on medical community does
a lot good since they know
for common man what would
do good or not,” says Dr.
Velumani of Thyrocare.
All in all, the important
thing to remember while using
social media is you are not
in control, the audience is.
Traditional marketers must
understand that social media
marketing is very different
from advertising. “People don’t
like being sold to, instead they
believe in discovering the right
solution for their problems,
themselves; they will endorse a
company if they have a positive
experience, which goes a long
way. Hence, it’s important that
when a healthcare organisation
decides to use social media, it
must do so with the utmost
sincerity; no hyperbole, or
sales pitches here. Healthcare
marketers must be aware of
the fine line between providing
information to build credibility
and trust, and medical advice.
Not knowing this distinction
can put an organisation at
great risk,” says Mr. Kamath.
Agrees Mr. Jain, “Credibility
of source of information is
very important. We have
managed a healthcare product
brand before and we have seen
the advices offered by us on
social media were seriously
taken by the customers and
also used the methodologies
mentioned for quick healing.
It is necessary that the advices,
remedies, tips given are coming
from expert doctors and are
not Googled! Besides, I believe
every healthcare or hospital
brand should aim at educating
people to NOT TO google
for health related problems as
most of the information on
the web is hyped and might
land patient in depression or
extreme decisions.”
Dr. Roy supports this
comment, when he says, “We
are all moving into a more
transparent world. Hence, one
should be open and accept and
take everything in their stride.
You should not try and hide
things or lie, as people will
eventually discover the truth.”
True. As social media is
a double edged sword and
minor negligence could lead
to negative feedback and legal
complications, hence some
feel it is probably better to
out-source your promotional
activity to an expert consultant
or agency to avoid unnecessary
complications which may
rise. “Many individuals and
companies, realising the
potential of this medium have
started courses and training
workshops which will help you
understand how to effectively
and efficiently use the
medium. It is recommended to
participate in these programs
and then start utilising the
services for professional use,”
says Mr. Jayanth.
All in all, social media
is a great tool when used
effectively, cautiously, and with
utmost sensitivity. Hence, go
ahead and indulge in social
media marketing!
As per a study done by
EchoVme, Ambani Hospitals in
Mumbai and Apollo Hospitals
were the front runners on
Social Media. Unfortunately,
even after repeated attempts,
there were no responses from
either hospitals on the said
topic.