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Stephanie Cooper - Genuine Curiosity - Conversations for Change

People often ask for the golden phrase, the silver bullet they can use to convince their teams, managers or executives to ‘go Agile’. While it would certainly help to talk about outcomes and benefits over practices and methods, it can sometimes be your own mindset that is holding back your ability to influence change. In this session, Steph looks at mindsets (the values and assumptions you make) and explore how a lack of genuine curiosity can provoke defensive behaviours in others and stop organisations from resolving the issues that really matter, but are challenging to address. She’ll use the setting of a small conversation to explore and better understand these ideas. While organisational change is big, the momentum for change can often be won or lost in small conversations. Becoming better in small conversations will help you grow your role in influencing organisational change. When you approach conversations with genuine curiosity about the other person’s point of view, you will not only have a more productive conversation, but build the trust needed for the work ahead. These ideas and techniques are popular as they are accessible and relatively easy to adopt.

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Genuine curiosity – 
conversations for change 
Stephanie Cooper 
Lean|Agile Consultant, Assurity Consulting 
Your pic 
With special guest stars - Ceedee Doyle & Gareth Evans
Who do you listen to?
This session 
• Context – influencing change 
• Mindset and defensive behaviours 
• Conversation – demo 
• Tools 
• Conversation the next day – demo + your help
Stephanie Cooper - Genuine Curiosity - Conversations for Change
Context – influencing change 
Agile 
Scrum 
Kanban 
TDD 
BDD 
Spec by Example 
SAFe 
Evidence-based management 
User-centric design 
A/B Testing 
Test automation …………. 
What we need to do, is … [insert term]
Some reactions 
Yay! 
My idea 
Sure thing 
Missy 
Tried 
Who the before 
*@#? 
My role??

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Stephanie Cooper - Genuine Curiosity - Conversations for Change

  • 1. Genuine curiosity – conversations for change Stephanie Cooper Lean|Agile Consultant, Assurity Consulting Your pic With special guest stars - Ceedee Doyle & Gareth Evans
  • 2. Who do you listen to?
  • 3. This session • Context – influencing change • Mindset and defensive behaviours • Conversation – demo • Tools • Conversation the next day – demo + your help
  • 5. Context – influencing change Agile Scrum Kanban TDD BDD Spec by Example SAFe Evidence-based management User-centric design A/B Testing Test automation …………. What we need to do, is … [insert term]
  • 6. Some reactions Yay! My idea Sure thing Missy Tried Who the before *@#? My role??
  • 8. Success? In 6 weeks: • Reduced time work blocked by one-third • Identified options for earlier delivery: • Project 1: reduced from 200 days to 60 days • Project 2: reduced from 1 year to 5 months • Baseline cycle time – thought 2-3 mths, actually 4 mths • Reduced local dev install - 2-3 days 1-3 hrs • Source code checkout - 20 mins 3 mins, 800MB 180MB + + +
  • 9. Put simply, because many professionals are almost always successful at what they do, they rarely experience failure. And because they have rarely failed, they have never learned how to learn from failure. So whenever their single-loop learning strategies go wrong, they become defensive, screen out criticism, and put the "blame" on anyone and everyone but themselves. In short, their ability to learn shuts down precisely at the moment they need it the most. Chris Argyris, Harvard Business Review, May/Jun91 Failing = Learning Think about the last time you failed. How do you describe it to yourself?
  • 10. My point of view: I want better results These results are not good enough – if that’s all I get, I am failing. I want to be able to influence sustainable (grows without me) and scalable (grows beyond me) change for the better. We reflected on how our own thoughts and actions had contributed to the outcome.
  • 11. Influencing change - conversations … Many times I’ve seen individual, team and enterprise-wide change initiatives fail to deliver results because the groups involved lacked the critical reasoning and conversation skills necessary to achieve their vision. Alternatively, most of the successful professionals I have encountered practice what Chris Argyris of Harvard and Donald Schon of MIT refer to as double-loop learning. William R. Noonan, Discussing the Undiscussable
  • 12. Single and double-loop learning Goals, actions What we do Results What we get Single-loop Beliefs, values, assumptions Why we do what we do Double-loop
  • 13. Methods Practices Principles Values Mindset Mindset focus - Agile
  • 14. Two mindsets – which is most like yours? I couldn't tell him the truth, I didn’t want to embarrass him. The answer is obvious. They may have a point, I need to know more about that What am I missing?
  • 15. Two mindsets – which is most like yours? 1: Unilateral Control 2: Mutual Learning Governing values Achieve the purpose as the actor defines it Win, do not lose Suppress negative feelings Emphasize rationality Valid information Free and informed choice Internal commitment to the choice and constant monitoring of its implementation Primary Strategies Control environment and task unilaterally Protect self and others unilaterally Sharing control Protect self and others bilaterally Participation in design and implementation of action Operationalized by Unillustrated attributions and evaluations e.g. “You seem unmotivated” Advocating courses of action which discourage inquiry e.g. “Let’s not talk about the past …” Treating ones’ own views as obviously correct Making covert attributions and evaluations Face-saving moves such as leaving potentially embarrassing facts unstated Attribution and evaluation illustrated with relatively directly observable data Surfacing conflicting view Encouraging public testing of evaluations Consequences Defensive relationships Low freedom of choice Reduced production of valid information Little public testing of ideas Single-loop learning Minimally defensive relationships High freedom of choice Increased production of valid information Public testing of ideas Increased likelihood of double-loop learning Drawn from a presentation by Absolum (2006), based on the original models proposed by Argyris and Schön.
  • 16. Mindset 1 – Characterised by defensive behaviour Protecting ourselves and others from conditions of threat or embarrassment. Me You?
  • 17. Defensive behaviours in action • Ceedee and Gareth will act out a conversation. • You will get a worksheet which lists some defensive behaviours. • Please choose two of these behaviours – watch the conversation and see if you can spot the behaviours in action.
  • 18. Introducing Ceedee & Gareth • Cloud-based timesheeting software company • Using Scrum, releasing to customers every 4 months • Last release re-skinned, some unhappy customers Ceedee - Product Owner Gareth – Tech Lead
  • 19. Debrief • Did it sound familiar? • What behaviours did you see? From who? • What were their assumptions? • What happens next?
  • 20. Tool to help us understand what’s going on Ladder of inference – jumping to conclusions
  • 21. Mindset 2: Mutual Learning Tools to help us develop this mindset • Mindfulness
  • 22. Mindset 2: Mutual Learning Tools to help us develop this mindset Advocacy Inquiry State your views with examples Ask open questions
  • 23. Within a matter of minutes, I watched the level of alertness and ‘presentness’ of the entire group rise ten notches – thanks not so much to Argyris’s personal charisma, but to his skilful practice of drawing out… generalisations. Peter Senge on Chris Argyris as a teacher, 1990
  • 24. Some examples of stating your views http://www.slideshare.net/derekwinter/mental-models-7989038 What to do … What to say … State your assumption and describe the data that lead to them “Here’s what I think and here’s how I got there…” Explain your assumptions “I assumed that …” Make your reasoning explicit “I came to this conclusion because ...” Explain the context of your point of view: who will be affected by what you propose, how will they be affected, and why “To get a clear picture of what I’m talking about, imagine you’re a customer who will be affected …” Give examples of what you propose, even if they hypothetical or metaphorical Make your thinking process visible (walk up the ladder of inference slowly)
  • 25. Some example questions You agree, don’t you? Do you see it differently? http://www.slideshare.net/derekwinter/mental-models-7989038 When … You might say … Strong views are expressed without any reasoning or illustrations … “You may be right, but I’d like to understand more. What leads you to believe …?” The discussion goes off on an apparent tangent … “I’m unclear how that connects to what we’ve been saying. Can you say how you see it as relevant?” You doubt the relevance of your own thoughts … “This may not be relevant now. If so, let me know and I will wait.” Two members pursue a topic at length while others observe … “I’d like to give my reaction to what you two have said so far, and then see what you and others think” Several views are advocated at once … “We now have three ideas on the table [say what they are]. I suggest we address them one at a time …” vs
  • 26. Crafting questions – the test … you idiot
  • 27. Mindset – Mutual Learning Mindfulness How am I reacting? Body language? Withholding any info? What are my assumptions? State views with examples Ask open questions Challenge your own and others’ thinking
  • 28. Before we get your help with the conversation
  • 29. Hi Gareth – not sure we got off on the right foot there. Would you like to meet for coffee? Sure. Are you buying?
  • 30. Debrief from conversation • How would you describe the differences between the conversations? • Outcome • Mood / tone • What might happen next? • Did you notice mindfulness/reflection? • Did you notice use of examples? • Did you notice use of open questions?
  • 31. Why bother? • Manipulative • Fake • Giving up power • Why should I make the effort? • Exposing self • Emotional risk • Don’t have time
  • 32. When it goes … Wrong • Recipes ‘eg. what is the data that lead you to that conclusion?’ - awkward • Haven’t contracted with the other person for reflective learning • Arguing over what fits at what level on the ladder • Seem too calm under fire - in control - need to remember to be more vulnerable and share what is going on. Being human is what it is all about. Right • Stronger relationships – co-operation over self-interest • Synergy that comes from different perspectives being applied to an issue/situation • Encouragement to put in the time and effort again
  • 33. Summary “How we relate to each other is the greatest leverage for change. The medium in which we work together is conversation.” • My POV: If you want to influence change for the better that is sustainable (grows without you) and scalable (grows beyond you), you need to be genuinely curious and willing to learn from others • Massaging the knot – discussing undiscussable issues • Practise having good conversations about difficult issues • Mindfulness, state views with examples, ask open questions • Greatest leverage for change is our own behaviour • Do you think you could/would try it? Bill Noonan
  • 34. Thanks for listening… Stephanie Cooper Assurity Consulting steph.cooper@assurity.co.nz Your pic
  • 35. References "Argyris: TEACHING SMART PEOPLE HOW TO LEARN." Argyris: TEACHING SMART PEOPLE HOW TO LEARN. Web. 30 Aug. 2014. <http://www.soules.ca/argyris.html>. "Chris Argyris: Theories of Action, Double-loop Learning and Organizational Learning." Infedorg. Web. 30 Aug. 2014. <http://infed.org/mobi/chris-argyris-theories-of-action-double-loop-learning-and-organizational-learning/>. "The Ladder of Inference." Benjamin Mitchells Blog. Web. 30 Aug. 2014. <http://blog.benjaminm.net/argyris/the-ladder-of-inference/>. "The Ladder of Inference Creates Bad Judgment." YouTube. YouTube. Web. 30 Aug. 2014. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9nFhs5W8o8>. "Mental Models." Mental Models. Web. 30 Aug. 2014. <http://www.slideshare.net/derekwinter/mental-models-7989038>. Noonan, William R. Discussing the Undiscussable: A Guide to Overcoming Defensive Routines in the Workplace. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass/Wiley, 2007. Print.
  • 36. Ladder of inference Ed Muzio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9nFhs5W8o8

Notes de l'éditeur

  1. I’m an Agile Coach and Transformation Consultant. I want to talk to you today about conversations for change and how genuine curiosity will influence the outcomes of those conversations. Consultant – position of influence but not power/control. Can maybe make some people do agile, but absolutely can’t make them be agile. You’ll see I’ve got some special guests as well, my colleagues Ceedee and Gareth. More about their part in this in a minute.
  2. My first question is who do you listen to? As Agilists we say we are open to trying new things, we have a mindset of learning and discovery. But I suspect that we are open to listening to industry experts and maybe our peers, but how often do we really listen to those we are trying to influence?
  3. I talk and talk – tell them all about it, cite success stats/benefits, drop names of international influential people, ask questions that are designed to lead to the answers I want.
  4. Who does she think she is? That’s never going to work here – I’ve tried it before What does that mean for my role? This is great – she supports my idea Wait you out missy
  5. Ongoing heroic effort by me Agreement, participation Sabotage Fragmented approach – all different directions All talk, no action
  6. Client a few years ago. Plus achievements: Agreement to continue pilot of deployment pipeline App server deployment from manual 1 hour to scripted 3 mins Dev/Test collaboration identifies issues early and removes delay of SIT scoping phase Practices – spec by ex, retros, progressive elaboration Team ready to write automated tests when development begins + other imminent achievements But our sponsor on holiday 3 weeks, massive restructure underway in the department, Head of the department left the role and person who replaced didn’t continue our work as it was seen as too much change going on. And the benefits were never realised from the changes we’d made. It wasn’t picked up and carried on. So I don’t see it as a success. As change-makers we often believe that if we get the results with the work, the rest will follow. This comes from a culture that is task and achievement-oriented over relationship building, and tell over ask – more successful if we give answers than if we ask questions.
  7. As Agilists, we talk about learning from failure, fast failure. Chris Argyris, Professor at Harvard Business School, known as co-founder of Organisation Development and know for his seminal work in Learning Organisations.
  8. You are very keen to influence other people – are you willing to be influenced by those same people?
  9. On flipchart: Single-loop learning: if that action didn’t work, propose an alternative action. Take the situation as given. eg. thermostat makes a decision to turn either on or off to regulate temperature in a room. Double-loop learning: asks why did this problem exist in the first place? Change in frame or re-contextualisation opens new possibilities for action outside the range of single-loop learning. Is this a good time to switch settings? Are there people in here? Are they in bed? Are they dressed for a colder setting? Did someone leave the door open? — thus it orientates itself to the present environment in order to make the wisest decision. Only get double-loop learning when have what is described as a ‘Mutual Learning Model Mindset’.
  10. Not just what is the problem, but why does the problem occur? Not getting product out the door fast enough, try Scrum, Scrum didn’t work, try Kanban. Double-loop learning involves looking at why not getting out the door fast enough, being able to challenge assumptions and beliefs about the way things have to happen. The reasoning processes of people inhibit the exchange of relevant information that makes double loop learning difficult. You start questioning why work is not getting out fast enough, people start to get defensive, may not share all relevant information. There are two different mindsets in operation.
  11. Which best describes your mindset when you go into a conversation where you want to influence change? Think individually, then show of hands – 1, 2, not prepared to commit yet!
  12. Not me! Get rid of it! What’s wrong with that? Check people feeling worried about which one they are – is it good/bad? Mutual Learning Model - I may have some answers, but they are not the only ones. I want to know what you think because I respect your point of view and believe that we can get a better outcome if we work together and learn from each another
  13. My defensive reactions. Sullen or ‘just cause you cried when you got the strap’ when I was 11 years old. Now ‘listen sweetheart!’ What are yours? Think about last difficult conversation you had. How did you respond? I’ll give you a few minutes, then ask you to share with your neighbour.
  14. Stop talking – to others and to yourself. Learn to still the voice within. You can’t listen if you are talking. Really listen to what the person said to you, don’t just be preparing what you want to say next. How are you reacting? What is your body language? Are you withholding any information? What are my assumptions? Notice how you are feeling and reacting, and be curious about why Reflect now
  15. – similar to Cross-Sell Working Group.
  16. Run through an example here.