1.
Genuine curiosity –
conversations for change
Stephanie Cooper
Lean|Agile Consultant, Assurity Consulting
Your pic
With special guest stars - Ceedee Doyle & Gareth Evans

2.
Who do you listen to?

3.
This session
• Context – influencing change
• Mindset and defensive behaviours
• Conversation – demo
• Tools
• Conversation the next day – demo + your help

4.
Context – influencing change
Agile
Scrum
Kanban
TDD
BDD
Spec by Example
SAFe
Evidence-based management
User-centric design
A/B Testing
Test automation ………….
What we need to do, is … [insert term]

5.
Some reactions
Yay!
My idea
Sure thing
Missy
Tried
Who the before
*@#?
My role??

6.
Some results

7.
Success?
In 6 weeks:
• Reduced time work blocked by one-third
• Identified options for earlier delivery:
• Project 1: reduced from 200 days to 60 days
• Project 2: reduced from 1 year to 5 months
• Baseline cycle time – thought 2-3 mths, actually 4 mths
• Reduced local dev install - 2-3 days 1-3 hrs
• Source code checkout - 20 mins 3 mins, 800MB 180MB
+ + +

8.
Put simply, because many professionals are almost always successful at what
they do, they rarely experience failure. And because they have rarely failed, they
have never learned how to learn from failure. So whenever their single-loop
learning strategies go wrong, they become defensive, screen out criticism, and
put the "blame" on anyone and everyone but themselves. In short, their ability
to learn shuts down precisely at the moment they need it the most.
Chris Argyris, Harvard Business Review, May/Jun91
Failing = Learning
Think about the last time you failed.
How do you describe it to yourself?

9.
My point of view: I want better results
These results are not good enough – if that’s all I get, I am failing.
I want to be able to influence sustainable (grows without me) and
scalable (grows beyond me) change for the better.
We reflected on how our own thoughts and actions
had contributed to the outcome.

10.
Influencing change - conversations
… Many times I’ve seen individual, team and enterprise-wide change initiatives
fail to deliver results because the groups involved lacked the critical reasoning
and conversation skills necessary to achieve their vision.
Alternatively, most of the successful professionals I have encountered practice
what Chris Argyris of Harvard and Donald Schon of MIT refer to as double-loop
learning.
William R. Noonan, Discussing the Undiscussable

11.
Single and double-loop learning
Goals, actions
What we do
Results
What we get
Single-loop
Beliefs, values,
assumptions
Why we do what we do
Double-loop

12.
Methods
Practices
Principles
Values
Mindset
Mindset focus - Agile

13.
Two mindsets – which is most like yours?
I couldn't tell him the
truth, I didn’t want to
embarrass him.
The answer is
obvious.
They may have a
point, I need to know
more about that
What am
I missing?

14.
Two mindsets – which is most like yours?
1: Unilateral Control 2: Mutual Learning
Governing values Achieve the purpose as the actor defines it
Win, do not lose
Suppress negative feelings
Emphasize rationality
Valid information
Free and informed choice
Internal commitment to the choice and constant
monitoring of its implementation
Primary Strategies Control environment and task unilaterally
Protect self and others unilaterally
Sharing control
Protect self and others bilaterally
Participation in design and implementation of
action
Operationalized by Unillustrated attributions and evaluations e.g. “You
seem unmotivated”
Advocating courses of action which discourage
inquiry e.g. “Let’s not talk about the past …”
Treating ones’ own views as obviously correct
Making covert attributions and evaluations
Face-saving moves such as leaving potentially
embarrassing facts unstated
Attribution and evaluation illustrated with relatively
directly observable data
Surfacing conflicting view
Encouraging public testing of evaluations
Consequences Defensive relationships
Low freedom of choice
Reduced production of valid information
Little public testing of ideas
Single-loop learning
Minimally defensive relationships
High freedom of choice
Increased production of valid information
Public testing of ideas
Increased likelihood of double-loop learning
Drawn from a presentation by Absolum (2006), based on the original models proposed by Argyris and Schön.

15.
Mindset 1 – Characterised by defensive behaviour
Protecting ourselves and others from conditions of threat or
embarrassment.
Me
You?

16.
Defensive behaviours in action
• Ceedee and Gareth will act out a conversation.
• You will get a worksheet which lists some defensive
behaviours.
• Please choose two of these behaviours – watch the
conversation and see if you can spot the behaviours in action.

17.
Introducing Ceedee & Gareth
• Cloud-based timesheeting software company
• Using Scrum, releasing to customers every 4 months
• Last release re-skinned, some unhappy customers
Ceedee - Product Owner
Gareth – Tech Lead

18.
Debrief
• Did it sound familiar?
• What behaviours did you see? From who?
• What were their assumptions?
• What happens next?

19.
Tool to help us understand what’s going on
Ladder of inference – jumping to conclusions

20.
Mindset 2: Mutual Learning
Tools to help us develop this mindset
• Mindfulness

21.
Mindset 2: Mutual Learning
Tools to help us develop this mindset
Advocacy Inquiry
State your
views with
examples
Ask open
questions

22.
Within a matter of minutes, I watched the level of
alertness and ‘presentness’ of the entire group rise ten
notches – thanks not so much to Argyris’s personal
charisma, but to his skilful practice of drawing out…
generalisations.
Peter Senge on Chris Argyris as a teacher, 1990

23.
Some examples of stating your views
http://www.slideshare.net/derekwinter/mental-models-7989038
What to do … What to say …
State your assumption and describe the data that
lead to them
“Here’s what I think and here’s how I got there…”
Explain your assumptions “I assumed that …”
Make your reasoning explicit “I came to this conclusion because ...”
Explain the context of your point of view: who will be
affected by what you propose, how will they be
affected, and why
“To get a clear picture of what I’m talking about,
imagine you’re a customer who will be affected …”
Give examples of what you propose, even if they
hypothetical or metaphorical
Make your thinking process visible (walk up the ladder of inference slowly)

24.
Some example questions
You agree, don’t you? Do you see it differently?
http://www.slideshare.net/derekwinter/mental-models-7989038
When … You might say …
Strong views are expressed without any reasoning or
illustrations …
“You may be right, but I’d like to understand more.
What leads you to believe …?”
The discussion goes off on an apparent tangent … “I’m unclear how that connects to what we’ve been
saying. Can you say how you see it as relevant?”
You doubt the relevance of your own thoughts … “This may not be relevant now. If so, let me know and I
will wait.”
Two members pursue a topic at length while others
observe …
“I’d like to give my reaction to what you two have said
so far, and then see what you and others think”
Several views are advocated at once … “We now have three ideas on the table [say what they
are]. I suggest we address them one at a time …”
vs

25.
Crafting questions – the test
… you idiot

26.
Mindset – Mutual Learning
Mindfulness
How am I reacting?
Body language?
Withholding any info?
What are my assumptions?
State views
with examples
Ask open questions
Challenge your own
and others’ thinking

27.
Before we get your help with the conversation

28.
Hi Gareth – not sure we got off on the right foot there.
Would you like to meet for coffee?
Sure. Are you buying?

29.
Debrief from conversation
• How would you describe the differences between the
conversations?
• Outcome
• Mood / tone
• What might happen next?
• Did you notice mindfulness/reflection?
• Did you notice use of examples?
• Did you notice use of open questions?

30.
Why bother?
• Manipulative
• Fake
• Giving up power
• Why should I make the effort?
• Exposing self
• Emotional risk
• Don’t have time

31.
When it goes …
Wrong
• Recipes ‘eg. what is the data that lead you to that conclusion?’ - awkward
• Haven’t contracted with the other person for reflective learning
• Arguing over what fits at what level on the ladder
• Seem too calm under fire - in control - need to remember to be more vulnerable
and share what is going on. Being human is what it is all about.
Right
• Stronger relationships – co-operation over self-interest
• Synergy that comes from different perspectives being applied to an issue/situation
• Encouragement to put in the time and effort again

32.
Summary “How we relate to each other is the greatest leverage for change.
The medium in which we work together is conversation.”
• My POV: If you want to influence change for the better that is
sustainable (grows without you) and scalable (grows beyond you), you need
to be genuinely curious and willing to learn from others
• Massaging the knot – discussing undiscussable issues
• Practise having good conversations about difficult issues
• Mindfulness, state views with examples, ask open questions
• Greatest leverage for change is our own behaviour
• Do you think you could/would try it?
Bill Noonan

33.
Thanks for listening…
Stephanie Cooper
Assurity Consulting
steph.cooper@assurity.co.nz
Your pic

34.
References
"Argyris: TEACHING SMART PEOPLE HOW TO LEARN." Argyris: TEACHING SMART PEOPLE HOW TO LEARN. Web. 30 Aug.
2014. <http://www.soules.ca/argyris.html>.
"Chris Argyris: Theories of Action, Double-loop Learning and Organizational Learning." Infedorg. Web. 30 Aug. 2014.
<http://infed.org/mobi/chris-argyris-theories-of-action-double-loop-learning-and-organizational-learning/>.
"The Ladder of Inference." Benjamin Mitchells Blog. Web. 30 Aug. 2014. <http://blog.benjaminm.net/argyris/the-ladder-of-inference/>.
"The Ladder of Inference Creates Bad Judgment." YouTube. YouTube. Web. 30 Aug. 2014.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9nFhs5W8o8>.
"Mental Models." Mental Models. Web. 30 Aug. 2014. <http://www.slideshare.net/derekwinter/mental-models-7989038>.
Noonan, William R. Discussing the Undiscussable: A Guide to Overcoming Defensive Routines in the Workplace. San
Francisco: Jossey-Bass/Wiley, 2007. Print.

35.
Ladder of inference
Ed Muzio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9nFhs5W8o8