100% Cloud – Your Action Plan for Success
5© 2020 Innovation Training Limited 2017
QuickBooks Connect London 2017
Panel Discussion
Attracting and Retaining Top Talent
Panelists
Bobby Lane, Partner, Shelley Stock Hutter
Jon Dawson, Partner and head of outsourcing, Kingston Smith
Alan Hemingway, Owner, Hemmingway Bailey
Nathan Keeley, Partner, MHA Carpenter Box
Facilitator
Chris Evans, Director of Sales, Intuit UK
QuickBooks Connect London
6–7March 2017

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QuickBooks Connect London 2017 Attracting and Retaining Top Talent
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Key Industry Trends and Insights
• Evolving market trends are accelerating technology and the use of data around Social
channels, Machine Learning, Ecosystems, Platforms, Mobile and Security
• Making Tax Digital starting in 2018 is potentially the biggest compliance event in a
generation
• 78% of small and medium businesses in the UK have adopted the cloud
• 96% of small businesses want more advice from their accountant
• By 2030 the millennial generation (digital natives) will account for 75% of workforce
• 70% of start-ups last year owned by millennials
• Millennials are looking to find purpose in their work so values and philanthropy are
important, they want jobs where they learn and grow. We must provide regular coaching and
feedback, a company-wide learning program, help them grow their careers; mentors are very
popular. They are looking for flexibility in working and approach.
• 35% of millennials say they value schedule flexibility over pay (Forbes)
• They are known as the job-hopping generation and will hold down four jobs by their 32nd
birthday (Forbes)
• Stats to support this below and see the report from Deloitte
https://www2.deloitte.com/global/en/pages/about-
deloitte/articles/millennialsurvey.html#
According to Jamie Gutfreund, Intelligence Group studies of millennials have found that:
• 64% of them say it’s a priority for them to make the world a better place
• 72% would like to be their own boss. But if they do have to work for a boss, 79% of them
would want that boss to serve more as a coach or mentor.
• 88% prefer a collaborative work-culture rather than a competitive one
• 74% want flexible work schedules – moving away from 9-5, blending working from home vs.
in office, and flexible working hours and holidays
• 88% want “work-life integration,” which isn't the same as work-life balance, since work and
life now blend together inextricably

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Questions and Answers
Q. How have the industry and market trends made you hire differently in your firm?
• Alan Hemingway (AH) – Still a new company relatively but having come from an industry
background rather than a practice one, recruit on potential and ability to do the job rather
than just on a seniority basis. Traditional practices go down the route of junior, semi-senior,
senior, etc.
• Bobby Lane (BL) – It is clear from the research that job-hopping is the trend. Previously we
would look at hiring people we believed would be there for the long term. You now have to
accept that some may have this desire, but for many they take a much shorter-term view. So
we have to keep feeding the machine and ensure that those who are out of the top are
replaced by a constant stream in at the bottom. This has meant a more constant search.
• Nathan Keeley (NK) – More focus on IT skills and awareness of social media.
• Jon Dawson (JD) – We are recruiting more people with data analytics and technology
expertise, including coding, in certain areas of the firm. Overall we look for experienced
business advisers or people who have the potential to build an excellent rapport with our
clients, which is a change from purely detailed technical expertise.
Q. How do you identify the skills you need today and for the future in your firm?
• AH – CVs are important but we always look beyond academic qualifications. Candidates
obviously need a certain standard of qualifications but we are not chasing the A* pupils. We
recruit on attitude, ambition and most importantly, strong communication skills and the ability
to become future business leaders rather than just technical accountants. We place great
emphasis on what they do away from school, and any volunteering work is always a big plus
because it means they think of others and those people come with communication skills.
If we have a lot of suitable candidates, we will do group interviews with presentations and a
critical thinking exercise involving a Kinder Egg and financial and operational information! If
we have a small band of candidates, we hold informal interviews over coffee and cake at a
coffee shop to see if they would fit in with the team. No technical questions, professional
qualifications tell us this; what we want to find out about is the person and how will they fit in
the team. We always have one important question in the back of our minds when chatting to
these people, would you want to sit in a car with them on a 3-hour car journey?
We want team members who want new challenges and not just from the technical side, we
want team members who will become trusted advisors, no matter what level they come in at.

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• BL – Recognising that the entrepreneurs of tomorrow may not have as broad a skill set as their
predecessors has meant identifying potential staff who can plug the skills gaps in the
management teams of those businesses. We need staff who have a technical ability, that is a
given, but also have the interpersonal skills and relationships with clients as the demand for
advisory services grows.
• NK – Not sure we do or can due to the fast pace of change. I think we just try to be flexible to
the changing requirements.
• JD – The main focus today is to bring in the right people to match our strategy; however, we
recognize that our strategy needs to be agile and so will our future recruitment needs. The
main drivers for our skills requirements are the business plans for each team and office.
Q. How are you planning to meet millennials’ requirements around valuing flexibility over
pay and working in collaboration and not competition?
• AH – We always give all the members of the team opportunities to do new things and early
responsibility is very important. Client contact happens very soon after starting and often
clients do not realise how young some of the team members are when they meet them for the
first time.
The team soon becomes the company experts on various pieces of software and everyone
has a say in the direction of the business. This is easier because we are a team of 5, but I try to
not have anything hidden or secret on what the business is doing or planning. A lot of the
best ideas come from the team!
• BL – The firm’s policies have continued to evolve with the marketplace. The partners of
practices have to recognise the desires, ambitions and dreams of millennials and accept that
their way of working in the future will be different from the team and practice dynamics of the
past.
• NK – More open dialogue and communication internally via the use of social committees and
internal group for collaboration – listening to their wants and needs (e.g. we have just recently
trialed a headphone policy for staff to have one headphone in during working hours).
• JD – In our experience, we’ve found that a lot of our younger team members do value pay
over flexibility but as they progress, this trend reverses. It also varies between teams and
services. We have started to introduce more flexibility into our benefits but there is a lot more
in the pipeline too, we just need to work out how to manage it within the business so we can
share experiences and collaborate more.

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Q. If 70% of start-ups are by millennials, how are you working differently with these
clients?
• AH – We try wherever possible to work closely with start-ups as much as possible and answer
all the questions that they will have. As Trusted Advisors, that is not just on the finance side
but also on key things they need to be doing in the business, such as marketing and social
media, and we try to help them as much as possible by signposting them to good contacts to
help them.
Obviously technology is important and we always try to show them solutions with Apps and
QuickBooks Online that can benefit them.
The company has a very relaxed culture and all the clients see this, so for the millennials, we
are not your typical stuffy accountants and I think they appreciate that. We do not get some
clients because they expect their accountants to be very stiff and proper, but we do not
recruit that type of team member. The team has a lot of independence and will often make
decisions as they see fit at the time and that all helps make the team feel more valued.
• BL – Practices have evolved over the last 15 years and will continue to do so. Firms can no
longer simply offer compliance services and this is absolutely true for the future start-ups.
These business owners will need additional support and advice in areas where they do not
have the relevant skills and are far more open to outsourcing than any previous generation.
• NK – A different package – Skype availability or WhatsApp as communication vehicles.
• JD – The main difference is how we communicate with our clients and it’s not exclusive to
millennials. One key change is how we present information, we rarely now send paper copies
of reports or documents. We are open for business over and above the core office hours and
response times are expected to be much quicker.
Q. What new roles have you created in your firm and why?
• AH – None as such, but we have a very flat structure and each team member gets involved in
a lot of areas of a client’s work. I suppose we are more organised as client account managers
than the traditional hierarchical, functional structure of a traditional practice.
• BL – The key change has been in operating the practice more as an entrepreneurial business.
How can a firm advise on areas such as business growth and development if they do not have
the skills themselves. So roles that are commercially focused such as assisting with
forecasting, business planning and business development have been key.
• NK – Head of cloud, cloud specialist, cloud technologist (not sure of a better title), aside from
this, other roles such as digital marketing would also be relevant.

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• JD – The three new areas we have focused more on are business intelligence, consultancy
and our own learning and development team. We’ve had very talented business intelligence
people in the team for a while but we’ve recently separated the team and are building on the
capabilities. Our range of consultancy services is expanding from HR advisers to risk and
strategy consultants. Separating our learning and development from HR has also provided
greater emphasis on our own talent development.
Q. What benefits do you offer in addition to a base salary?
• AH – Flexibility! If one of the team needs to get off early to go to a sports training session
(have a very sporty team) for example, no problem. Some of the team are not the best
timekeepers and we do not penalise them for being 10 minutes late because we know they
will make the time up.
One of the team is a Girl Guide Leader and in the January she was offered the chance to go
to the Maldives for 4 weeks in August. When she told me about it, my response was, “You are
going, now let’s work out how we will make it work for you and the rest of the team. “ August
was hard for the rest of us but you cannot deny someone that once in a lifetime opportunity.
• BL – PMI, bonus, season ticket loan.
• NK – Overtime, bonus – annual and Christmas, cycle to work, childcare vouchers, IT help to
buy, holiday club (to purchase additional holiday days) pension; more recently, low level
health insurance.
• JD – We have a lot of standard benefits including a cycle to work scheme, season ticket loans
and a workplace pension, but we also have a comprehensive package that includes private
medical coverage, life insurance, permanent health insurance and bonuses, amongst others.
Some of these apply or are enhanced with longer service. We have recently introduced more
flexible benefits and last year over 200 of the team bought or sold holiday entitlement. There
is a desire to offer more flexible working options but we just need to work out some of the
details to make it fair for all and apply it consistently.
Q. What if any incentives do you offer your staff?
• AH – None as such, but we try to have regular social events and everyone knows their opinion
is valued. From my days in industry, I have seen loads of situations where someone is
unhappy in their job and they are given a pay rise and 2 months, they are still unhappy in their
job!
• BL – Business introduction incentives, sabbaticals.
• NK – Commissions on new clients or cross referrals, e.g. wealth management.

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• JD – There are incentives for our team if they recruit someone or introduce a client. We also
like to celebrate any success we have across the firm and that could include passing exams to
helping win a large new client. It is, however, an area we are looking to improve on and we
know we can always do better!
Q. What impact has the acceleration of technology had on your firm and clients?
• AH – Very early on I took the view that new technology was coming and so let’s be good at
using it and making it benefit our clients. All of the team have the same philosophy and for us
it opens up so many possibilities. I fully understand that technology can be a driver for
redundancy in the industry, but let’s embrace what good it can do for you and make sure the
team are experts in using it so we will be less at risk of redundancy.
• BL – A huge impact! Technology is an enabler and has meant that clients are able to spend
their fees on the areas of most value to them such as forecasting and business development.
Automating the processing roles has meant that we can be more efficient in terms of
providing real time information that allows clients to make decisions based on facts rather
than gut instinct.
• NK – Increased growth for the firm and significantly increased touch points for our clients.
• JD – The main changes are how we communicate and the greater level of transparency; with
some technology we are always open and visible. Overall, these are great improvements for
our clients and, whilst we’ve had to adopt our processes, the speed at which things happen
just gets better. One of the disadvantages is the sheer volume of software and technology we
now need to have an understanding of, and it feels at times that we have become software
resellers.
Q. How do you attract top talent?
• AH – Recruiting on potential and not just on achievement or current job role. Latest recruit is
AAT qualified but never had a job in accountancy, but we saw their potential and we know we
can grow and develop them.
Hopefully we have a good reputation in the area now and we were in the top 100 Apprentice
Employers nationally in 2014 with the Skills Funding Agency, and local training providers
know of how we work and we often are referred potential candidates.
• BL – We are able to offer the top talent a broad role. From audit to outsourcing, the team are
exposed to all types of businesses and all types of issues. From helping identify the best
working capital facilities for a business to working on an acquisition, our team are trained in
such a way that they would be able to work in any business, whether one of their own or for
someone else.

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• NK – Often this is difficult, especially being in multiple locations where one may have a
weighting over another – we have greater success in training our existing staff and they
become the ‘top talent’ – often you can see signs in people as to what skills they have and
which roles they are better suited to.
• JD – Across a lot of our business, we do benefit from being a top 20 firm and this puts us on
the radar for our graduate trainees. The ability to work with some large clients or move
between teams is another benefit they value. For more experienced hires, the flexibility we
offer can really help.
Q. How do you onboard new starters?
• AH – Make them feel part of the team straight away and on their first lunchtime, we either all
go out for lunch or have a Dominos in the office. The quicker everyone gets to know them as
individuals the better, all helps them to fit in.
We also give them real work as quickly as possible, no “sitting next to Nelly“ for 4 weeks whilst
they understand what we do. Drop them in at the deep end with water rings!
• BL – We have used new technology to automate some of the onboarding process and make
integration much easier. But nothing can replace a mentor within the business and a
colleague who can show someone how it is done. Our training programme is well defined,
from outsourcing team taking the bookkeeping courses to audit trainees on the training
program.
• NK – An induction process and three monthly reviews covering training on various software
packages used and internal procedures and systems.
• JD – All new recruits receive a broad HR and IT induction. We then have a firm induction every
2 months where we explain more about the wide range of services and share our strategic
vision. Each team has their own program depending on role. Our trainee accountants have a
much more structured induction.
Q. What do you do to drive engagement and motivation in your practice?
• AH – Involvement in decision making and listening to their ideas, which are often much better
than mine!
• BL – Every team member has always felt part of the firm from day one. The nature of our
recruitment process means that we hire motivated employees who want to progress but also
want to build relationships with their clients.
• NK – All of the above – also regular informal reviews with our staff.

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• JD – We do ask everyone in the firm to tell us how we could do better; we have an annual staff
survey with anonymous feedback. This can really help to drive how we look after our teams
and clients. There is also a large investment in our IT systems, premises and brand as we want
to invest in a business people are proud to work for.
Q. How do you approach career development in your firm?
• AH – I want all the team to progress and become future business leaders. If they do not want
to do that after a while, no problem, as long as they are doing a good job, no problem for
me.
If one of the team has the hit the wall with regards to professional exams, no pressure from
me. The important thing is they are working well for us. Sometimes after a little time out from
the pressures, they go again and pass.
• BL – Nobody is held back! If someone shows potential in a certain area, that potential is
nurtured and developed. One of our equity partners was invited into the partnership at 28 as
his talents were clearly identifiable. We work with our team to identify their ambitions and
goals. Some of our most talented outsourcing team members were school leavers who have
been trained and developed over the years.
• NK – A career plan for each member of staff, becoming more focused as they progress. We
have just introduced a new appraisal system whereby, for instance, points can be earned for
doing things well and regular feedback can be delivered.
• JD – Everyone has an appraisal meeting every 6 months and a lot of this is driven by a set of
core competencies we have designed for every role. The competencies are published across
the board so everyone can see the key areas at all levels and know what they need to do to
progress.
Q. What coaching and mentoring do you offer in your firm?
• AH – We have done business coaching before and all the team has being involved.
If there is an opportunity for them to attend an event that would benefit them, there’s no
problem with them attending. Giving them responsibility is the best bit of mentoring you can
do.
• BL – We are part of a training organisation which works very closely with our audit trainees. All
outsourcing team members work closely with a manager. CPD is encouraged and we are
always identifying new courses, new technology and new developments to help develop our
team.
• NK – We have a budget allocated each year to be used across our qualified staff. This is a
mixture of generic course, e.g. improving management skills, as well as those requested or
tailored more specifically to the role of the employee.

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• JD – We don’t have a formal coaching system in place right now, although we do have a lot of
training driven by our learning and development teams. We are implementing a formal
partner mentoring system which will be rolled out to other levels in due course, but for now,
we have informal mentoring of our managers.
Q. How do you ensure you retain the best talent?
• AH – Try and keep them valued as members of the team and do not be afraid to let them
grow and develop with early responsibility. No strait jackets!
• BL – Sometimes you can’t! If you take someone from school and they have only ever had one
job, they want to try something different. However, when you identify the rising stars, the key
is always to work with them, develop them and identify a path for them.
• NK – Rising stars program where we have careers paths planned for the medium terms and
indicate these to those members of staff it is relevant to.
• JD – Having core competencies can really drive individual development and, in turn,
promotions. We do promote people to partner level frequently, with two promotion dates
each year. Part of our strategy is to grow so it’s not just a case of replacing retirees; we are
looking to increase headcount. We also listen to people and try to address any problems.
Q. What have been some of the biggest challenges in hiring or retaining top talent?
• AH – Convincing some candidates that a small practice is a better opportunity for them than a
big one. Having said that, if they cannot see that, maybe not the right person for Hemingway
Bailey.
• BL – The challenges are different at different times. When the Big 4 are hiring they tend to
swallow up as much of the talent as they can. The challenge then becomes being able to
demonstrate how an entrepreneurial mid-tier firm is able to provide a broader more
commercial experience working with growing businesses. That may not be for everyone!
• NK – Knowing what the role would entail in say 5 years’ time in the changing business
environment – sometimes gaining initial interest for the roles.
• JD – The recruitment process can take a long time to find the right person and, if they are
joining in a more experienced role, the notice period is often quite long. It can also be very
costly! Competition is high as there are a lot of good firms looking to attract new people. We
are also trying to build teams outside central London, which can be a challenge as our West
End and city offices tend to be more popular.

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Q. What advice would you give to your peers in hiring or retaining top talent?
• AH – Look beyond UCCA points and hire on attitude and personality. Spot those with “nous.“
• BL – Be confident and not apologetic in what you have to offer. The next generation of
accountants and business owners needs help on how to run the commercial and financial
side of the business. Creatives do not always make the best strategists or financial people, so
show what you have to offer. Invest time in the team and show them you are a place that is
going to develop them. Above all accept that many of them do not want a job for life, but if
you find the real stars of the future do everything you can to let them know. Accountants are
historically bad communicators; do not let that stand in the way of telling your key staff how
much they are valued.
• NK – Listen to your staff and be flexible when discussing their concerns and plans for the
future.
• JD – You need to be aware of what your competitors are offering and it can be difficult to find
this from an impartial source. You need to listen to what your potential recruits are asking for
and if you do change your policies, it needs to be applied consistently across teams. Finally,
don’t rush to fill a space but instead make sure you find the right person that matches your
ambitions and fits well into your existing team.

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Tips & Tricks
• Look for potential
• Early responsibility
• Get everyone involved in opportunities away from pure accountancy. We mentor with a local
children’s charity and also speak regularly in schools for example.
• When hiring candidates straight from school or college, understand starting at work is a big
jump for them.
• Don’t be grey accountants :-)
• Do not fear technology, embrace it and automate as many of the low level processes as you
can. This may allow you to generate more work, showing your client what you have to offer in
terms of strategic and commercial support.
• If you find the stars of the future don’t be afraid to tell them that’s what they are.
• Constantly feed the machine! It is inevitable that people will leave given the trends in the
marketplace. Don’t get caught out, have a constant stream of new people to replace those
who are not in it for the long term.
• Social media can be a good source of direct recruitment but it can be time consuming.
• Don’t upset the balance in a stable, well-performing team.
• Make sure any recruitment is linked to meeting your strategic goal and critically assess
weaknesses and gaps before filling them.
• Make sure any new benefits you want to offer are what your teams will actually value.

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Panelists
Jon is an experienced consultant to entrepreneurial businesses, advising his clients on business
issues from funding and attracting investors, to preparing a business for sale or discussing its
future growth strategy. Jon heads up the outsourcing team and is also part of the firm’s IT
strategy group. He is the resident expert in cloud accounting and business software, always
looking for opportunities for the firm to use new technology to support its clients.
Alan is not your traditional accountancy practice accountant having worked in manufacturing
logistics before taking his accountancy qualifications.
He puts great emphasis on apprenticeships and giving the team early responsibility.
Alan believes training as an accountant is not just on technical skills but also on softer skills, so he
helps his team become future business leaders and not just technical accountants.
Hemingway Bailey was the first winner of the QuickBooks Firm of the Future in the UK in 2016.
Jon Dawson
Partner and Head of Outsourcing
Kingston Smith
www.kingstonsmith.co.uk
@DonJawson
Alan Hemingway, ACMA, CGMA, MiP
Owner
Hemmingway Bailey
hemingwaybailey.co.uk
@alanacct

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Nathan joined MHA Carpenter Box in 2001 as a trainee and progressed through the ranks to
partner. He specialises in offering advice to the SME business sector by looking at both
accounting and tax solutions, alongside cloud software options, to drive efficiency. Nathan heads
the cloud team within the firm, and advises clients on the benefits of cloud accounting, as well as
the numerous add-ons and integration opportunities now available.
Bobby is a partner at Audit, Accountancy, Outsourcing, Business Advisory and Tax practice
Shelley Stock Hutter, where he has overseen business growth since 2004. He is a specialist in
working with start-ups, growing businesses as well as helping struggling companies get back on
track both in the UK and internationally. Bobby is a regular speaker, media commentator, BBC
Radio business agony uncle and expert on professional new business and marketing. Recently
voted the most influential source of finance news and information on social media.
Nathan Keeley
Partner
MHA Carpenter Box
www.carpenterbox.com
@Nathan_Keeley75
Bobby Lane
Partner
Shelley Stock Hutter
www.sshllp.com
@sshllp

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Facilitator
Chris is Director of Sales, part of the UK leadership team and has been at Intuit UK for over 6
years. He is an entrepreneurial leader with 16 years’ experience of delivering results, defining
and executing strategies, and building and developing high performing teams. Passionate
around creating value, customer delight and thought leadership to small businesses and
accounting professionals, Chris is proud to work for Intuit, which is ranked #16 in the Great Places
to work in the UK for 2016.
Chris Evans
Director of Sales
Intuit UK
www.intuit.com
@chris_evansuk