SlideShare a Scribd company logo
1 of 35
CT-LP
vs.
CT-CTA
William A. Knight IV, MD M. Fernanda Bellolio, MD
26 Jun 2017
Disclosures
4%
Migraine
Tension
Cluster
10% - SAH
• Aneurysm – 80%
• AVM
• Vasculitis
• Cavernous angiomas
• Neoplasm
• Mycotic aneurysms
• Blood dyscrasias
• ICH
• Trauma
• Perimesencephalic hemorrhage
1-2%
• Idiopathic Intracranial HTN
• Meningitis
• Carotid or vertebral dissection
• CVST
• RCVS
• PRES
Worst Headache of Life
SAH Misdiagnosis
• Frequency of misdiagnosis = 12-51%
• ED miss rate ~ 6%
• 37% of missed diagnoses re-present to a different hospital
• One of largest sources of US ED litigation claims and settlements
Preface
Focus on Subarachnoid Hemorrhage
But…what about all the other “can’t miss” diagnoses
Acceptable miss rate
0%
CT-LP sensitivity
100%
Do you want to diagnose the SAH or the aneurysm?
I think we can agree…
What about onset within 6 hours?
• Neurologically normal
• CT performed within 6 hours on headache onset
• Read as normal by attending-level radiologist
• Miss rate? 1:600 -1000 patients
• Discuss with patient…
Lumbar puncture
• Standard of Care
• Why?
• Shown to detect small amounts of blood or xanthrochromia
• First test able to do so
100% sensitive
3 year follow-up
“Standard of Care”
2008
Most desired ED procedures
• Intubation
• Chest tube
• ED Thoracotomy
• Central line
• Lateral Canthotomy
• Joint reduction
• Laceration repair
• Abscess drainage
• Pelvic exam
• Paronychia drainage
• Butt pus
• Bartholin’s gland drainage
• Lumbar Puncture
LP complications
• Patient discomfort
• Local tissue irritation/infection
• Reflex muscle spasm
• Postdural puncture headache
• Nerve injury
• Epidural hematoma
• Meningitis
• False positive results…
LP Limitations
• Unruptured aneurysms
• Arterial dissection
• Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis
• Pituitary apoplexy
• Time consuming
• Technically challenging
• Obese or uncooperative
Added benefits
•Differentiate other diagnoses
• Meningitis
• Idiopathic intracranial hypertension
• Cerebral sinus venous thrombosis
• Spontaneous intracranial hypotension
• 13.3% incidence in the ED
• 400 RBCs as the cutoff
• 8.9% incidence in the ED
• 1000 RBCs as the cutoff
• May need to repeat at different lumbar interspace
• 2/3 of SAH have elevated opening pressure…
Traumatic tap?
What’s the problem here?
CT Angiogram
• Identify down to 3mm aneurysms
• Require contrast to fill the aneurysm
• Only rule out vascular causes of headache
• Can reach 99% negative predictive value
UCMC Aneurysm workup
• CT positive for SAH
• CT Angiogram
If negative
• Digital Subtraction Angiogram
If negative
• MRA
If negative
• Repeat DSA in 6 weeks
CT Angiogram
Non-contrast head CT – 1.7 mSv
CTA head – 1.9 mSv
CTA neck – 2.8 mSv
Contrast induced nephropathy
$$$
CTAs are expensive
Resource intensive
Time to interpretation
Reconstructions?
True. True. Unrelated.
• What do I do with headaches that present acutely?
• CSF most sensitive after 12 hours from headache ictus
Fair question…
Timing Matters
Non-contrast CT
• 0-6 hours – 99+%?
• 0-24 hours – 93-98%
• After 3 days – 85%
• After 1 week – 50%
CSF
• 0-2 hours - may be negative
• 0-12 hours - ???
• 12+ hours – most sensitive
• 100% have xanthrochromia
• 70% at 3 weeks
• 40% at 4 weeks
• WBC:RBC – 1:1000
• Within 24 hours
• What if body habitus makes the LP….
difficult or impossible?
• Or, I have 30 people in the lobby and a low pre-test probability…
• Or the patient refuses, or wants out AMA?
• INR 2.6?
• Is CT/CTA good enough then?
Wait…
• What if body habitus makes the LP….
difficult or impossible?
• Or, I have 30 people in the lobby and a low pre-test probability…
• Or the patient refuses, or wants out AMA?
• INR 2.6?
• Is CT/CTA good enough then?
Wait…
One final question…
• 1 SAH : 700-1000 LPs
• How does your documentation look?
Closing Remarks?
Overall
• Many studies show CT is highly specific:
• Unlikely to reveal a false positive
• Highly sensitive (~ 92-98%)
• Miss rate of 2-8% is unacceptable
• Diagnoses missed by non-contrast CT:
• Small SAH, Idiopathic Intracranial HTN, Meningitis, Carotid or Vertebral Dissection, CVST
• If you suspect it, get the CT
• If +: Great (for your diagnosis, not the patient)
• If -: Now what?

More Related Content

What's hot

ischemic stroke
ischemic strokeischemic stroke
ischemic strokenadoy1122
 
stroke treatment and perspective
stroke treatment and perspectivestroke treatment and perspective
stroke treatment and perspectivelongjun zhu
 
Transient Ischaemic Attack - Imaging Pathways
Transient Ischaemic Attack - Imaging PathwaysTransient Ischaemic Attack - Imaging Pathways
Transient Ischaemic Attack - Imaging Pathwaysjiendaya
 
Acute management of Stroke By Dr Sanjay jaiswal Neurologist sept2012
 Acute  management of Stroke By Dr Sanjay  jaiswal  Neurologist sept2012 Acute  management of Stroke By Dr Sanjay  jaiswal  Neurologist sept2012
Acute management of Stroke By Dr Sanjay jaiswal Neurologist sept2012Sanjay Jaiswal
 
Intracerebral Haemorrhage.Dr NG NeuroEdu
Intracerebral Haemorrhage.Dr NG NeuroEduIntracerebral Haemorrhage.Dr NG NeuroEdu
Intracerebral Haemorrhage.Dr NG NeuroEduslneurosurgery
 
Medical Radiological and Surgical Management of Stroke
Medical Radiological and Surgical Management of Stroke Medical Radiological and Surgical Management of Stroke
Medical Radiological and Surgical Management of Stroke Manbachan singh Bedi
 
Dont Ignore Transient Ischemic Attack
Dont Ignore Transient Ischemic AttackDont Ignore Transient Ischemic Attack
Dont Ignore Transient Ischemic AttackAvinash Km
 
Subarachnoid hemorrhage and Vasospasm
Subarachnoid hemorrhage and VasospasmSubarachnoid hemorrhage and Vasospasm
Subarachnoid hemorrhage and VasospasmAndrew Ferguson
 
Approach to acute stroke BE FAST
Approach to acute stroke BE FASTApproach to acute stroke BE FAST
Approach to acute stroke BE FASTDr Surendra Khosya
 
Management of intracranial hemorrhage (2)
Management of intracranial hemorrhage (2)Management of intracranial hemorrhage (2)
Management of intracranial hemorrhage (2)StevenP302
 
Hemorrhagic vs. Ischemic Stroke Prognosis_TPostrel
Hemorrhagic vs. Ischemic Stroke Prognosis_TPostrelHemorrhagic vs. Ischemic Stroke Prognosis_TPostrel
Hemorrhagic vs. Ischemic Stroke Prognosis_TPostrelTina Postrel
 
Stroke management
Stroke management Stroke management
Stroke management PS Deb
 
Stroke emergency treatment for 26th march 00
Stroke emergency treatment for 26th march 00Stroke emergency treatment for 26th march 00
Stroke emergency treatment for 26th march 00PS Deb
 
Intracranial haemorrhage
Intracranial haemorrhageIntracranial haemorrhage
Intracranial haemorrhageBarbara Stanley
 

What's hot (20)

ischemic stroke
ischemic strokeischemic stroke
ischemic stroke
 
stroke treatment and perspective
stroke treatment and perspectivestroke treatment and perspective
stroke treatment and perspective
 
Transient Ischaemic Attack - Imaging Pathways
Transient Ischaemic Attack - Imaging PathwaysTransient Ischaemic Attack - Imaging Pathways
Transient Ischaemic Attack - Imaging Pathways
 
Ischaemic stroke cme
Ischaemic stroke cmeIschaemic stroke cme
Ischaemic stroke cme
 
Acute management of Stroke By Dr Sanjay jaiswal Neurologist sept2012
 Acute  management of Stroke By Dr Sanjay  jaiswal  Neurologist sept2012 Acute  management of Stroke By Dr Sanjay  jaiswal  Neurologist sept2012
Acute management of Stroke By Dr Sanjay jaiswal Neurologist sept2012
 
Acute brain attack 911
Acute brain attack  911Acute brain attack  911
Acute brain attack 911
 
Intracerebral Haemorrhage.Dr NG NeuroEdu
Intracerebral Haemorrhage.Dr NG NeuroEduIntracerebral Haemorrhage.Dr NG NeuroEdu
Intracerebral Haemorrhage.Dr NG NeuroEdu
 
Medical Radiological and Surgical Management of Stroke
Medical Radiological and Surgical Management of Stroke Medical Radiological and Surgical Management of Stroke
Medical Radiological and Surgical Management of Stroke
 
Stroke
StrokeStroke
Stroke
 
Dont Ignore Transient Ischemic Attack
Dont Ignore Transient Ischemic AttackDont Ignore Transient Ischemic Attack
Dont Ignore Transient Ischemic Attack
 
Stroke class
Stroke classStroke class
Stroke class
 
Subarachnoid hemorrhage and Vasospasm
Subarachnoid hemorrhage and VasospasmSubarachnoid hemorrhage and Vasospasm
Subarachnoid hemorrhage and Vasospasm
 
Approach to acute stroke BE FAST
Approach to acute stroke BE FASTApproach to acute stroke BE FAST
Approach to acute stroke BE FAST
 
Management of intracranial hemorrhage (2)
Management of intracranial hemorrhage (2)Management of intracranial hemorrhage (2)
Management of intracranial hemorrhage (2)
 
Hemorrhagic vs. Ischemic Stroke Prognosis_TPostrel
Hemorrhagic vs. Ischemic Stroke Prognosis_TPostrelHemorrhagic vs. Ischemic Stroke Prognosis_TPostrel
Hemorrhagic vs. Ischemic Stroke Prognosis_TPostrel
 
Stroke management
Stroke management Stroke management
Stroke management
 
Stroke emergency treatment for 26th march 00
Stroke emergency treatment for 26th march 00Stroke emergency treatment for 26th march 00
Stroke emergency treatment for 26th march 00
 
Intracranial haemorrhage
Intracranial haemorrhageIntracranial haemorrhage
Intracranial haemorrhage
 
TIA and CVA
TIA and CVATIA and CVA
TIA and CVA
 
Stroke
StrokeStroke
Stroke
 

Similar to CT-LP vs. CT-CTA: Diagnosing SAH and Other Headache Causes

Subarachnoid Haemorrhage Management
Subarachnoid Haemorrhage  Management Subarachnoid Haemorrhage  Management
Subarachnoid Haemorrhage Management Ashish Chowdhury
 
SAH for Neurology Residents
SAH for Neurology ResidentsSAH for Neurology Residents
SAH for Neurology ResidentsDhaval Shukla
 
SUBARACHNOID HEMORRHAGE
SUBARACHNOID HEMORRHAGESUBARACHNOID HEMORRHAGE
SUBARACHNOID HEMORRHAGEAbhinovKandur
 
TIA and stroke prevention
TIA and stroke preventionTIA and stroke prevention
TIA and stroke preventionLobna A.Mohamed
 
Emergency brain CT interpretation
Emergency brain CT interpretationEmergency brain CT interpretation
Emergency brain CT interpretationHedayatullah Hamidi
 
Cerebrovascular diseases 2.pptx
Cerebrovascular diseases 2.pptxCerebrovascular diseases 2.pptx
Cerebrovascular diseases 2.pptxSuzanM1
 
Surgery for Head Injury
Surgery for Head InjurySurgery for Head Injury
Surgery for Head InjuryDhaval Shukla
 
Stroke.ppt
Stroke.pptStroke.ppt
Stroke.pptCPMeena5
 
Acute aortic emergencies
Acute aortic emergenciesAcute aortic emergencies
Acute aortic emergenciesAndrewCrofton
 
Approach to TIA/ CVA
Approach to TIA/ CVAApproach to TIA/ CVA
Approach to TIA/ CVAAhmad Shahir
 
Is Bypass Operation Still The Only Option For Left Main Disease And Completel...
Is Bypass Operation Still The Only Option For Left Main Disease And Completel...Is Bypass Operation Still The Only Option For Left Main Disease And Completel...
Is Bypass Operation Still The Only Option For Left Main Disease And Completel...ahvc0858
 
Identifying and managing acute stroke
Identifying and managing acute strokeIdentifying and managing acute stroke
Identifying and managing acute strokeAhmad Shahir
 
a212b74434a2a0e4d2bee882e015987d.pdf
a212b74434a2a0e4d2bee882e015987d.pdfa212b74434a2a0e4d2bee882e015987d.pdf
a212b74434a2a0e4d2bee882e015987d.pdfSuryaRaj73
 
Cerebral venous thrombosis- Treatment
Cerebral venous thrombosis- TreatmentCerebral venous thrombosis- Treatment
Cerebral venous thrombosis- TreatmentRoopchand Ps
 

Similar to CT-LP vs. CT-CTA: Diagnosing SAH and Other Headache Causes (20)

Subarachnoid Haemorrhage Management
Subarachnoid Haemorrhage  Management Subarachnoid Haemorrhage  Management
Subarachnoid Haemorrhage Management
 
SAH for Neurology Residents
SAH for Neurology ResidentsSAH for Neurology Residents
SAH for Neurology Residents
 
SUBARACHNOID HEMORRHAGE
SUBARACHNOID HEMORRHAGESUBARACHNOID HEMORRHAGE
SUBARACHNOID HEMORRHAGE
 
TIA and stroke prevention
TIA and stroke preventionTIA and stroke prevention
TIA and stroke prevention
 
Emergency brain CT interpretation
Emergency brain CT interpretationEmergency brain CT interpretation
Emergency brain CT interpretation
 
Cerebrovascular diseases 2.pptx
Cerebrovascular diseases 2.pptxCerebrovascular diseases 2.pptx
Cerebrovascular diseases 2.pptx
 
Surgery for Head Injury
Surgery for Head InjurySurgery for Head Injury
Surgery for Head Injury
 
Stroke.ppt
Stroke.pptStroke.ppt
Stroke.ppt
 
Acute aortic emergencies
Acute aortic emergenciesAcute aortic emergencies
Acute aortic emergencies
 
Dissection_Novel Killer
Dissection_Novel KillerDissection_Novel Killer
Dissection_Novel Killer
 
Massive Stroke by Dr Candice Delcourt
Massive Stroke by Dr Candice DelcourtMassive Stroke by Dr Candice Delcourt
Massive Stroke by Dr Candice Delcourt
 
Approach to TIA/ CVA
Approach to TIA/ CVAApproach to TIA/ CVA
Approach to TIA/ CVA
 
Is Bypass Operation Still The Only Option For Left Main Disease And Completel...
Is Bypass Operation Still The Only Option For Left Main Disease And Completel...Is Bypass Operation Still The Only Option For Left Main Disease And Completel...
Is Bypass Operation Still The Only Option For Left Main Disease And Completel...
 
Identifying and managing acute stroke
Identifying and managing acute strokeIdentifying and managing acute stroke
Identifying and managing acute stroke
 
a212b74434a2a0e4d2bee882e015987d.pdf
a212b74434a2a0e4d2bee882e015987d.pdfa212b74434a2a0e4d2bee882e015987d.pdf
a212b74434a2a0e4d2bee882e015987d.pdf
 
Approach to Pediatric Trauma
Approach to Pediatric Trauma Approach to Pediatric Trauma
Approach to Pediatric Trauma
 
Neuroradiology 1a
Neuroradiology 1a Neuroradiology 1a
Neuroradiology 1a
 
Cerebral venous thrombosis- Treatment
Cerebral venous thrombosis- TreatmentCerebral venous thrombosis- Treatment
Cerebral venous thrombosis- Treatment
 
CT_vs_MR.ppt
CT_vs_MR.pptCT_vs_MR.ppt
CT_vs_MR.ppt
 
STROKE
STROKESTROKE
STROKE
 

More from SMACC Conference

Precision Medicine in Acute Brain Injury
Precision Medicine in Acute Brain InjuryPrecision Medicine in Acute Brain Injury
Precision Medicine in Acute Brain InjurySMACC Conference
 
CSD by Jeffcote Coda 22.pdf
CSD by Jeffcote Coda 22.pdfCSD by Jeffcote Coda 22.pdf
CSD by Jeffcote Coda 22.pdfSMACC Conference
 
Subdural Haemorrhage and MMA embolisation
Subdural Haemorrhage and MMA embolisationSubdural Haemorrhage and MMA embolisation
Subdural Haemorrhage and MMA embolisationSMACC Conference
 
Andy Neill - More neuroanatomy pearls for neurocritical care
Andy Neill - More neuroanatomy pearls for neurocritical careAndy Neill - More neuroanatomy pearls for neurocritical care
Andy Neill - More neuroanatomy pearls for neurocritical careSMACC Conference
 
The BONANZA Trial and PbTO2 Monitoring
The BONANZA Trial and PbTO2 MonitoringThe BONANZA Trial and PbTO2 Monitoring
The BONANZA Trial and PbTO2 MonitoringSMACC Conference
 
Dilating the Dogma of Vasospasm
Dilating the Dogma of VasospasmDilating the Dogma of Vasospasm
Dilating the Dogma of VasospasmSMACC Conference
 
There is no such thing as mild, moderate and severe TBI - by Andrew Udy
There is no such thing as mild, moderate and severe TBI - by Andrew UdyThere is no such thing as mild, moderate and severe TBI - by Andrew Udy
There is no such thing as mild, moderate and severe TBI - by Andrew UdySMACC Conference
 
TBI Debate - Mild, moderate and severe categories work
TBI Debate - Mild, moderate and severe categories workTBI Debate - Mild, moderate and severe categories work
TBI Debate - Mild, moderate and severe categories workSMACC Conference
 
TBI: when to stop and when to give time
TBI: when to stop and when to give timeTBI: when to stop and when to give time
TBI: when to stop and when to give timeSMACC Conference
 
Ketamine in Brain Injury by Toby Jeffcote
Ketamine in Brain Injury by Toby JeffcoteKetamine in Brain Injury by Toby Jeffcote
Ketamine in Brain Injury by Toby JeffcoteSMACC Conference
 
Managing Complications of Chronic SCI by Bonne Lee
Managing Complications of Chronic SCI by Bonne LeeManaging Complications of Chronic SCI by Bonne Lee
Managing Complications of Chronic SCI by Bonne LeeSMACC Conference
 
EEG and Status Eplilepticus by Tania Farrar
EEG and Status Eplilepticus by Tania FarrarEEG and Status Eplilepticus by Tania Farrar
EEG and Status Eplilepticus by Tania FarrarSMACC Conference
 
Browne Neuro symposium.pptx
Browne Neuro symposium.pptxBrowne Neuro symposium.pptx
Browne Neuro symposium.pptxSMACC Conference
 
Paediatric Stroke by Shree Basu
Paediatric Stroke by Shree BasuPaediatric Stroke by Shree Basu
Paediatric Stroke by Shree BasuSMACC Conference
 
Hypertensing Spinal Cord Injury - gold standard or wacky?
Hypertensing Spinal Cord Injury - gold standard or wacky?Hypertensing Spinal Cord Injury - gold standard or wacky?
Hypertensing Spinal Cord Injury - gold standard or wacky?SMACC Conference
 
Optimal Cerebral Perfusion Pressure
Optimal Cerebral Perfusion PressureOptimal Cerebral Perfusion Pressure
Optimal Cerebral Perfusion PressureSMACC Conference
 
The Power of Words - Death and Language.ppt
The Power of Words - Death and Language.pptThe Power of Words - Death and Language.ppt
The Power of Words - Death and Language.pptSMACC Conference
 
Sepsis and Antimicrobial Stewardship - Two Sides of the Same Coin
Sepsis and Antimicrobial Stewardship - Two Sides of the Same CoinSepsis and Antimicrobial Stewardship - Two Sides of the Same Coin
Sepsis and Antimicrobial Stewardship - Two Sides of the Same CoinSMACC Conference
 
Brain injury outcomes and predictors
Brain injury outcomes and predictorsBrain injury outcomes and predictors
Brain injury outcomes and predictorsSMACC Conference
 

More from SMACC Conference (20)

Precision Medicine in Acute Brain Injury
Precision Medicine in Acute Brain InjuryPrecision Medicine in Acute Brain Injury
Precision Medicine in Acute Brain Injury
 
CSD by Jeffcote Coda 22.pdf
CSD by Jeffcote Coda 22.pdfCSD by Jeffcote Coda 22.pdf
CSD by Jeffcote Coda 22.pdf
 
Subdural Haemorrhage and MMA embolisation
Subdural Haemorrhage and MMA embolisationSubdural Haemorrhage and MMA embolisation
Subdural Haemorrhage and MMA embolisation
 
Andy Neill - More neuroanatomy pearls for neurocritical care
Andy Neill - More neuroanatomy pearls for neurocritical careAndy Neill - More neuroanatomy pearls for neurocritical care
Andy Neill - More neuroanatomy pearls for neurocritical care
 
The BONANZA Trial and PbTO2 Monitoring
The BONANZA Trial and PbTO2 MonitoringThe BONANZA Trial and PbTO2 Monitoring
The BONANZA Trial and PbTO2 Monitoring
 
Dilating the Dogma of Vasospasm
Dilating the Dogma of VasospasmDilating the Dogma of Vasospasm
Dilating the Dogma of Vasospasm
 
EVD Tips and Tricks
EVD Tips and TricksEVD Tips and Tricks
EVD Tips and Tricks
 
There is no such thing as mild, moderate and severe TBI - by Andrew Udy
There is no such thing as mild, moderate and severe TBI - by Andrew UdyThere is no such thing as mild, moderate and severe TBI - by Andrew Udy
There is no such thing as mild, moderate and severe TBI - by Andrew Udy
 
TBI Debate - Mild, moderate and severe categories work
TBI Debate - Mild, moderate and severe categories workTBI Debate - Mild, moderate and severe categories work
TBI Debate - Mild, moderate and severe categories work
 
TBI: when to stop and when to give time
TBI: when to stop and when to give timeTBI: when to stop and when to give time
TBI: when to stop and when to give time
 
Ketamine in Brain Injury by Toby Jeffcote
Ketamine in Brain Injury by Toby JeffcoteKetamine in Brain Injury by Toby Jeffcote
Ketamine in Brain Injury by Toby Jeffcote
 
Managing Complications of Chronic SCI by Bonne Lee
Managing Complications of Chronic SCI by Bonne LeeManaging Complications of Chronic SCI by Bonne Lee
Managing Complications of Chronic SCI by Bonne Lee
 
EEG and Status Eplilepticus by Tania Farrar
EEG and Status Eplilepticus by Tania FarrarEEG and Status Eplilepticus by Tania Farrar
EEG and Status Eplilepticus by Tania Farrar
 
Browne Neuro symposium.pptx
Browne Neuro symposium.pptxBrowne Neuro symposium.pptx
Browne Neuro symposium.pptx
 
Paediatric Stroke by Shree Basu
Paediatric Stroke by Shree BasuPaediatric Stroke by Shree Basu
Paediatric Stroke by Shree Basu
 
Hypertensing Spinal Cord Injury - gold standard or wacky?
Hypertensing Spinal Cord Injury - gold standard or wacky?Hypertensing Spinal Cord Injury - gold standard or wacky?
Hypertensing Spinal Cord Injury - gold standard or wacky?
 
Optimal Cerebral Perfusion Pressure
Optimal Cerebral Perfusion PressureOptimal Cerebral Perfusion Pressure
Optimal Cerebral Perfusion Pressure
 
The Power of Words - Death and Language.ppt
The Power of Words - Death and Language.pptThe Power of Words - Death and Language.ppt
The Power of Words - Death and Language.ppt
 
Sepsis and Antimicrobial Stewardship - Two Sides of the Same Coin
Sepsis and Antimicrobial Stewardship - Two Sides of the Same CoinSepsis and Antimicrobial Stewardship - Two Sides of the Same Coin
Sepsis and Antimicrobial Stewardship - Two Sides of the Same Coin
 
Brain injury outcomes and predictors
Brain injury outcomes and predictorsBrain injury outcomes and predictors
Brain injury outcomes and predictors
 

Recently uploaded

VarSeq 2.6.0: Advancing Pharmacogenomics and Genomic Analysis
VarSeq 2.6.0: Advancing Pharmacogenomics and Genomic AnalysisVarSeq 2.6.0: Advancing Pharmacogenomics and Genomic Analysis
VarSeq 2.6.0: Advancing Pharmacogenomics and Genomic AnalysisGolden Helix
 
Presentation on Parasympathetic Nervous System
Presentation on Parasympathetic Nervous SystemPresentation on Parasympathetic Nervous System
Presentation on Parasympathetic Nervous SystemPrerana Jadhav
 
PULMONARY EMBOLISM AND ITS MANAGEMENTS.pdf
PULMONARY EMBOLISM AND ITS MANAGEMENTS.pdfPULMONARY EMBOLISM AND ITS MANAGEMENTS.pdf
PULMONARY EMBOLISM AND ITS MANAGEMENTS.pdfDolisha Warbi
 
97111 47426 Call Girls In Delhi MUNIRKAA
97111 47426 Call Girls In Delhi MUNIRKAA97111 47426 Call Girls In Delhi MUNIRKAA
97111 47426 Call Girls In Delhi MUNIRKAAjennyeacort
 
The next social challenge to public health: the information environment.pptx
The next social challenge to public health:  the information environment.pptxThe next social challenge to public health:  the information environment.pptx
The next social challenge to public health: the information environment.pptxTina Purnat
 
Presentació "Real-Life VR Integration for Mild Cognitive Impairment Rehabilit...
Presentació "Real-Life VR Integration for Mild Cognitive Impairment Rehabilit...Presentació "Real-Life VR Integration for Mild Cognitive Impairment Rehabilit...
Presentació "Real-Life VR Integration for Mild Cognitive Impairment Rehabilit...Badalona Serveis Assistencials
 
Primary headache and facial pain. (2024)
Primary headache and facial pain. (2024)Primary headache and facial pain. (2024)
Primary headache and facial pain. (2024)Mohamed Rizk Khodair
 
Presentation for Bella Mahl 2024-03-28-24-MW-Overview-Bella.pptx
Presentation for Bella Mahl 2024-03-28-24-MW-Overview-Bella.pptxPresentation for Bella Mahl 2024-03-28-24-MW-Overview-Bella.pptx
Presentation for Bella Mahl 2024-03-28-24-MW-Overview-Bella.pptxpdamico1
 
Informed Consent Empowering Healthcare Decision-Making.pptx
Informed Consent Empowering Healthcare Decision-Making.pptxInformed Consent Empowering Healthcare Decision-Making.pptx
Informed Consent Empowering Healthcare Decision-Making.pptxSasikiranMarri
 
Tans femoral Amputee : Prosthetics Knee Joints.pptx
Tans femoral Amputee : Prosthetics Knee Joints.pptxTans femoral Amputee : Prosthetics Knee Joints.pptx
Tans femoral Amputee : Prosthetics Knee Joints.pptxKezaiah S
 
Basic principles involved in the traditional systems of medicine PDF.pdf
Basic principles involved in the traditional systems of medicine PDF.pdfBasic principles involved in the traditional systems of medicine PDF.pdf
Basic principles involved in the traditional systems of medicine PDF.pdfDivya Kanojiya
 
low cost antibiotic cement nail for infected non union.pptx
low cost antibiotic cement nail for infected non union.pptxlow cost antibiotic cement nail for infected non union.pptx
low cost antibiotic cement nail for infected non union.pptxdrashraf369
 
Music Therapy's Impact in Palliative Care| IAPCON2024| Dr. Tara Rajendran
Music Therapy's Impact in Palliative Care| IAPCON2024| Dr. Tara RajendranMusic Therapy's Impact in Palliative Care| IAPCON2024| Dr. Tara Rajendran
Music Therapy's Impact in Palliative Care| IAPCON2024| Dr. Tara RajendranTara Rajendran
 
Giftedness: Understanding Everyday Neurobiology for Self-Knowledge
Giftedness: Understanding Everyday Neurobiology for Self-KnowledgeGiftedness: Understanding Everyday Neurobiology for Self-Knowledge
Giftedness: Understanding Everyday Neurobiology for Self-Knowledgeassessoriafabianodea
 
epilepsy and status epilepticus for undergraduate.pptx
epilepsy and status epilepticus  for undergraduate.pptxepilepsy and status epilepticus  for undergraduate.pptx
epilepsy and status epilepticus for undergraduate.pptxMohamed Rizk Khodair
 
systemic bacteriology (7)............pptx
systemic bacteriology (7)............pptxsystemic bacteriology (7)............pptx
systemic bacteriology (7)............pptxEyobAlemu11
 
Statistical modeling in pharmaceutical research and development.
Statistical modeling in pharmaceutical research and development.Statistical modeling in pharmaceutical research and development.
Statistical modeling in pharmaceutical research and development.ANJALI
 
Measurement of Radiation and Dosimetric Procedure.pptx
Measurement of Radiation and Dosimetric Procedure.pptxMeasurement of Radiation and Dosimetric Procedure.pptx
Measurement of Radiation and Dosimetric Procedure.pptxDr. Dheeraj Kumar
 
April 2024 ONCOLOGY CARTOON by DR KANHU CHARAN PATRO
April 2024 ONCOLOGY CARTOON by  DR KANHU CHARAN PATROApril 2024 ONCOLOGY CARTOON by  DR KANHU CHARAN PATRO
April 2024 ONCOLOGY CARTOON by DR KANHU CHARAN PATROKanhu Charan
 
Biomechanics- Shoulder Joint!!!!!!!!!!!!
Biomechanics- Shoulder Joint!!!!!!!!!!!!Biomechanics- Shoulder Joint!!!!!!!!!!!!
Biomechanics- Shoulder Joint!!!!!!!!!!!!ibtesaam huma
 

Recently uploaded (20)

VarSeq 2.6.0: Advancing Pharmacogenomics and Genomic Analysis
VarSeq 2.6.0: Advancing Pharmacogenomics and Genomic AnalysisVarSeq 2.6.0: Advancing Pharmacogenomics and Genomic Analysis
VarSeq 2.6.0: Advancing Pharmacogenomics and Genomic Analysis
 
Presentation on Parasympathetic Nervous System
Presentation on Parasympathetic Nervous SystemPresentation on Parasympathetic Nervous System
Presentation on Parasympathetic Nervous System
 
PULMONARY EMBOLISM AND ITS MANAGEMENTS.pdf
PULMONARY EMBOLISM AND ITS MANAGEMENTS.pdfPULMONARY EMBOLISM AND ITS MANAGEMENTS.pdf
PULMONARY EMBOLISM AND ITS MANAGEMENTS.pdf
 
97111 47426 Call Girls In Delhi MUNIRKAA
97111 47426 Call Girls In Delhi MUNIRKAA97111 47426 Call Girls In Delhi MUNIRKAA
97111 47426 Call Girls In Delhi MUNIRKAA
 
The next social challenge to public health: the information environment.pptx
The next social challenge to public health:  the information environment.pptxThe next social challenge to public health:  the information environment.pptx
The next social challenge to public health: the information environment.pptx
 
Presentació "Real-Life VR Integration for Mild Cognitive Impairment Rehabilit...
Presentació "Real-Life VR Integration for Mild Cognitive Impairment Rehabilit...Presentació "Real-Life VR Integration for Mild Cognitive Impairment Rehabilit...
Presentació "Real-Life VR Integration for Mild Cognitive Impairment Rehabilit...
 
Primary headache and facial pain. (2024)
Primary headache and facial pain. (2024)Primary headache and facial pain. (2024)
Primary headache and facial pain. (2024)
 
Presentation for Bella Mahl 2024-03-28-24-MW-Overview-Bella.pptx
Presentation for Bella Mahl 2024-03-28-24-MW-Overview-Bella.pptxPresentation for Bella Mahl 2024-03-28-24-MW-Overview-Bella.pptx
Presentation for Bella Mahl 2024-03-28-24-MW-Overview-Bella.pptx
 
Informed Consent Empowering Healthcare Decision-Making.pptx
Informed Consent Empowering Healthcare Decision-Making.pptxInformed Consent Empowering Healthcare Decision-Making.pptx
Informed Consent Empowering Healthcare Decision-Making.pptx
 
Tans femoral Amputee : Prosthetics Knee Joints.pptx
Tans femoral Amputee : Prosthetics Knee Joints.pptxTans femoral Amputee : Prosthetics Knee Joints.pptx
Tans femoral Amputee : Prosthetics Knee Joints.pptx
 
Basic principles involved in the traditional systems of medicine PDF.pdf
Basic principles involved in the traditional systems of medicine PDF.pdfBasic principles involved in the traditional systems of medicine PDF.pdf
Basic principles involved in the traditional systems of medicine PDF.pdf
 
low cost antibiotic cement nail for infected non union.pptx
low cost antibiotic cement nail for infected non union.pptxlow cost antibiotic cement nail for infected non union.pptx
low cost antibiotic cement nail for infected non union.pptx
 
Music Therapy's Impact in Palliative Care| IAPCON2024| Dr. Tara Rajendran
Music Therapy's Impact in Palliative Care| IAPCON2024| Dr. Tara RajendranMusic Therapy's Impact in Palliative Care| IAPCON2024| Dr. Tara Rajendran
Music Therapy's Impact in Palliative Care| IAPCON2024| Dr. Tara Rajendran
 
Giftedness: Understanding Everyday Neurobiology for Self-Knowledge
Giftedness: Understanding Everyday Neurobiology for Self-KnowledgeGiftedness: Understanding Everyday Neurobiology for Self-Knowledge
Giftedness: Understanding Everyday Neurobiology for Self-Knowledge
 
epilepsy and status epilepticus for undergraduate.pptx
epilepsy and status epilepticus  for undergraduate.pptxepilepsy and status epilepticus  for undergraduate.pptx
epilepsy and status epilepticus for undergraduate.pptx
 
systemic bacteriology (7)............pptx
systemic bacteriology (7)............pptxsystemic bacteriology (7)............pptx
systemic bacteriology (7)............pptx
 
Statistical modeling in pharmaceutical research and development.
Statistical modeling in pharmaceutical research and development.Statistical modeling in pharmaceutical research and development.
Statistical modeling in pharmaceutical research and development.
 
Measurement of Radiation and Dosimetric Procedure.pptx
Measurement of Radiation and Dosimetric Procedure.pptxMeasurement of Radiation and Dosimetric Procedure.pptx
Measurement of Radiation and Dosimetric Procedure.pptx
 
April 2024 ONCOLOGY CARTOON by DR KANHU CHARAN PATRO
April 2024 ONCOLOGY CARTOON by  DR KANHU CHARAN PATROApril 2024 ONCOLOGY CARTOON by  DR KANHU CHARAN PATRO
April 2024 ONCOLOGY CARTOON by DR KANHU CHARAN PATRO
 
Biomechanics- Shoulder Joint!!!!!!!!!!!!
Biomechanics- Shoulder Joint!!!!!!!!!!!!Biomechanics- Shoulder Joint!!!!!!!!!!!!
Biomechanics- Shoulder Joint!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

CT-LP vs. CT-CTA: Diagnosing SAH and Other Headache Causes

  • 1. CT-LP vs. CT-CTA William A. Knight IV, MD M. Fernanda Bellolio, MD 26 Jun 2017
  • 3. 4%
  • 5. 10% - SAH • Aneurysm – 80% • AVM • Vasculitis • Cavernous angiomas • Neoplasm • Mycotic aneurysms • Blood dyscrasias • ICH • Trauma • Perimesencephalic hemorrhage 1-2% • Idiopathic Intracranial HTN • Meningitis • Carotid or vertebral dissection • CVST • RCVS • PRES Worst Headache of Life
  • 6.
  • 7. SAH Misdiagnosis • Frequency of misdiagnosis = 12-51% • ED miss rate ~ 6% • 37% of missed diagnoses re-present to a different hospital • One of largest sources of US ED litigation claims and settlements
  • 8. Preface Focus on Subarachnoid Hemorrhage But…what about all the other “can’t miss” diagnoses Acceptable miss rate 0% CT-LP sensitivity 100% Do you want to diagnose the SAH or the aneurysm?
  • 9.
  • 10. I think we can agree…
  • 11. What about onset within 6 hours? • Neurologically normal • CT performed within 6 hours on headache onset • Read as normal by attending-level radiologist • Miss rate? 1:600 -1000 patients • Discuss with patient…
  • 12. Lumbar puncture • Standard of Care • Why? • Shown to detect small amounts of blood or xanthrochromia • First test able to do so
  • 15. Most desired ED procedures • Intubation • Chest tube • ED Thoracotomy • Central line • Lateral Canthotomy • Joint reduction • Laceration repair • Abscess drainage • Pelvic exam • Paronychia drainage • Butt pus • Bartholin’s gland drainage • Lumbar Puncture
  • 16. LP complications • Patient discomfort • Local tissue irritation/infection • Reflex muscle spasm • Postdural puncture headache • Nerve injury • Epidural hematoma • Meningitis • False positive results…
  • 17. LP Limitations • Unruptured aneurysms • Arterial dissection • Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis • Pituitary apoplexy • Time consuming • Technically challenging • Obese or uncooperative
  • 18. Added benefits •Differentiate other diagnoses • Meningitis • Idiopathic intracranial hypertension • Cerebral sinus venous thrombosis • Spontaneous intracranial hypotension
  • 19.
  • 20. • 13.3% incidence in the ED • 400 RBCs as the cutoff • 8.9% incidence in the ED • 1000 RBCs as the cutoff • May need to repeat at different lumbar interspace • 2/3 of SAH have elevated opening pressure… Traumatic tap?
  • 22. CT Angiogram • Identify down to 3mm aneurysms • Require contrast to fill the aneurysm • Only rule out vascular causes of headache • Can reach 99% negative predictive value
  • 23. UCMC Aneurysm workup • CT positive for SAH • CT Angiogram If negative • Digital Subtraction Angiogram If negative • MRA If negative • Repeat DSA in 6 weeks
  • 24. CT Angiogram Non-contrast head CT – 1.7 mSv CTA head – 1.9 mSv CTA neck – 2.8 mSv Contrast induced nephropathy
  • 25. $$$ CTAs are expensive Resource intensive Time to interpretation Reconstructions?
  • 26.
  • 28. • What do I do with headaches that present acutely? • CSF most sensitive after 12 hours from headache ictus Fair question…
  • 29. Timing Matters Non-contrast CT • 0-6 hours – 99+%? • 0-24 hours – 93-98% • After 3 days – 85% • After 1 week – 50% CSF • 0-2 hours - may be negative • 0-12 hours - ??? • 12+ hours – most sensitive • 100% have xanthrochromia • 70% at 3 weeks • 40% at 4 weeks • WBC:RBC – 1:1000 • Within 24 hours
  • 30. • What if body habitus makes the LP…. difficult or impossible? • Or, I have 30 people in the lobby and a low pre-test probability… • Or the patient refuses, or wants out AMA? • INR 2.6? • Is CT/CTA good enough then? Wait…
  • 31. • What if body habitus makes the LP…. difficult or impossible? • Or, I have 30 people in the lobby and a low pre-test probability… • Or the patient refuses, or wants out AMA? • INR 2.6? • Is CT/CTA good enough then? Wait…
  • 32. One final question… • 1 SAH : 700-1000 LPs • How does your documentation look?
  • 34.
  • 35. Overall • Many studies show CT is highly specific: • Unlikely to reveal a false positive • Highly sensitive (~ 92-98%) • Miss rate of 2-8% is unacceptable • Diagnoses missed by non-contrast CT: • Small SAH, Idiopathic Intracranial HTN, Meningitis, Carotid or Vertebral Dissection, CVST • If you suspect it, get the CT • If +: Great (for your diagnosis, not the patient) • If -: Now what?

Editor's Notes

  1. I’m an intensivist. A neuro intensivist. I come at this with a very different angle.
  2. 4% of ED patients (2 million) present with “headache” “Thunderclap” headache or sudden “Worst Headache of Life”
  3. 88% have non-serious causes of headache – Migraine Tension Cluster Benign thunderclap
  4. Mortality Rate 51% overall mortality rate 10% mortality prehospital 25% mortality within 24 hours 45% mortality within 30 days Morbidity 33% cases needing lifelong care 27% of all stroke-related years of potential life lost before age 65 Rebleeding 26-75% in days to weeks
  5. Not perfect – but good sensitivity for non-con CT.
  6. Approaches 100% - but not quite. Risk/benefit Headaches, LP complications False positive testing
  7. CSF interpretation Xanthrochromia – persists for up to 2 weeks White paper Gas chromatograph
  8. Overlap of LP/CTA - sometimes you just need both…
  9. Great. You found an aneurysm. 2% general prevalence How do I know it caused the headache? In assuming all aneurysms discovered by CTA are the cause of the presenting headache, we will transform people into patients, and cause unnecessary downstream testing and interventions.