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  Click	
  here	
  for	
  Original	
  Article:	
  Millennials	
  Are	
  Changing	
  The	
  Way	
  We	
  Work,	
  and	
  It's	
  All	
  Because	
  of	
  'Star	
  Wars'	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
Millennials are Changing
the Way We Work,
and It’s All Because
of ‘Star Wars’
We’ve	
  entered	
  into	
  a	
  time	
  where	
  people	
  don’t	
  equate	
  hard	
  work	
  	
  
with	
  getting	
  ahead.	
  Instead	
  they	
  want	
  the	
  work/life	
  balance.	
  	
  
They	
  watched	
  their	
  parents	
  work	
  themselves	
  to	
  death,	
  and	
  they	
  	
  
don’t	
  want	
  to	
  do	
  that.”	
  	
  —	
  Brad	
  Szollose	
  
	
  
By	
  Jeremy	
  Price	
  Jun	
  6,	
  2017	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
David	
  Burkus	
  is	
  an	
  award-­‐winning	
  podcaster	
  and	
  author	
  of	
  Under	
  New	
  
Management:	
  How	
  Leading	
  Organizations	
  Are	
  Upending	
  Business	
  as	
  Usual.	
  	
  
He	
  recently	
  hosted	
  Brad	
  Szollose,	
  author	
  of	
  the	
  award-­‐winning	
  business	
  book	
  
Liquid	
  Leadership,	
  is	
  a	
  global	
  business	
  advisor	
  who	
  helps	
  companies	
  understand	
  
how	
  technology	
  has	
  transformed	
  corporate	
  culture	
  and	
  the	
  behavior	
  of	
  
Generation	
  Y	
  Millennials,	
  to	
  discuss	
  how	
  the	
  influences	
  of	
  video	
  games,	
  Star	
  
Wars,	
  and	
  more	
  are	
  helping	
  Millennials	
  transform	
  the	
  workplace	
  for	
  good.	
  
	
  
Continued	
  on	
  Next	
  Page…	
  
Life-­‐changing	
  ideas	
  from	
  the	
  world’s	
  great	
  thinkers.	
  Served	
  daily.	
  
 	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  Click	
  here	
  for	
  Original	
  Article:	
  Millennials	
  Are	
  Changing	
  The	
  Way	
  We	
  Work,	
  and	
  It's	
  All	
  Because	
  of	
  'Star	
  Wars'	
  
David:	
  As	
  you’ve	
  explored	
  in	
  your	
  book,	
  Liquid	
  Leadership,	
  times	
  are	
  changing,	
  
and	
  leadership	
  styles	
  are	
  changing.	
  I	
  wonder	
  if	
  you	
  could	
  take	
  us	
  back	
  to	
  how	
  
you	
  arrived	
  at	
  this	
  [conclusion].	
  
	
  
Brad:	
  Around	
  the	
  early	
  90s,	
  I	
  started	
  a	
  company	
  called	
  K2	
  Design	
  with	
  my	
  
business	
  partner	
  at	
  the	
  time,	
  Douglas	
  Cleek.	
  A	
  year	
  later,	
  he	
  comes	
  into	
  the	
  
office.	
  He	
  says,	
  “Dude.	
  We	
  have	
  to	
  become	
  an	
  Internet	
  company,”	
  and	
  I	
  say,	
  
“What	
  the	
  heck’s	
  the	
  internet?”	
  In	
  the	
  early	
  90s,	
  very	
  few	
  people	
  knew	
  what	
  	
  
the	
  internet	
  was.	
  
	
  
As	
  soon	
  as	
  we	
  started	
  building	
  our	
  first	
  websites,	
  we	
  exploded.	
  425%	
  hyper-­‐
growth	
  for	
  five	
  straight	
  years.	
  It	
  went	
  from	
  just	
  me	
  and	
  a	
  business	
  partner	
  to	
  
sixty	
  employees.	
  [But]	
  the	
  behavior	
  of	
  this	
  next	
  generation	
  [of	
  employees]	
  was	
  
driving	
  me	
  up	
  a	
  wall.	
  We	
  had	
  a	
  generational	
  issue.	
  You	
  have	
  a	
  new	
  generation	
  
that’s	
  been	
  trained	
  and	
  influenced	
  by	
  three	
  major	
  things.	
  
	
  
First,	
  let’s	
  go	
  back	
  in	
  time.	
  Around	
  1977,	
  these	
  new	
  things	
  came	
  into	
  our	
  world	
  
called	
  “video	
  games.”	
  How	
  do	
  you	
  learn	
  in	
  a	
  video	
  game?	
  
	
  
David:	
  You	
  die	
  and	
  then	
  you	
  try	
  again.	
  
	
  
Brad:	
  You	
  learn	
  the	
  rules	
  intuitively.	
  You	
  push	
  against,	
  you	
  test,	
  you	
  fail	
  as	
  much	
  
as	
  you	
  can	
  so	
  that	
  you	
  can	
  figure	
  out	
  what	
  the	
  rules	
  and	
  the	
  politics	
  are.	
  Now	
  if	
  
you’re	
  a	
  baby	
  boomer,	
  you	
  remember	
  playing	
  Monopoly.	
  You	
  had	
  to	
  read	
  the	
  
box,	
  take	
  your	
  time,	
  learn	
  the	
  rules,	
  and	
  then	
  you	
  could	
  play	
  the	
  game.	
  
	
  
So	
  what	
  happened	
  is	
  a	
  new	
  generation	
  was	
  raised	
  
with	
  all	
  this	
  interactivity.	
  They	
  didn’t	
  just	
  sit	
  and	
  
watch	
  a	
  television	
  show.	
  Everything	
  became	
  
interactive:	
  Teddy	
  Ruxpin,	
  Speak	
  and	
  Spell,	
  things	
  like	
  
that.	
  And	
  in	
  the	
  video	
  game	
  world,	
  leadership	
  is	
  
rotational.	
  Everybody	
  is	
  used	
  according	
  to	
  their	
  skill	
  set	
  
within	
  the	
  parameters	
  of	
  the	
  quest.	
  So	
  video	
  games	
  are	
  a	
  huge	
  component	
  to	
  
the	
  behavior	
  of	
  millennials.	
  
	
  
The	
  second	
  big	
  piece	
  that	
  influenced	
  this	
  next	
  generation	
  is	
  Star	
  Wars.	
  It	
  
changed	
  our	
  perspective	
  on	
  how	
  to	
  use	
  technology	
  in	
  a	
  ubiquitous	
  way.	
  Just	
  like	
  
using	
  a	
  toaster	
  or	
  driving	
  a	
  car,	
  Star	
  Wars	
  showed	
  us	
  what	
  a	
  T1	
  line	
  would	
  look	
  
like.	
  Or	
  how	
  to	
  use	
  a	
  pad	
  or	
  a	
  robot,	
  or	
  even	
  a	
  wifi	
  network.	
  And	
  this	
  was	
  
shown	
  to	
  us	
  at	
  a	
  time	
  when	
  we	
  had	
  rotary	
  dial	
  phones.	
  
	
  
It	
  didn’t	
  matter	
  where	
  you	
  were;	
  everybody	
  started	
  to	
  see	
  Star	
  Wars.	
  And	
  from	
  
that	
  moment	
  on,	
  if	
  you	
  look	
  at	
  the	
  top	
  10	
  blockbuster	
  movies	
  in	
  the	
  last	
  30-­‐35	
  
years,	
  seven	
  of	
  them	
  have	
  either	
  been	
  science	
  fiction	
  or	
  fantasy-­‐driven.	
  Before	
  
 	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  Click	
  here	
  for	
  Original	
  Article:	
  Millennials	
  Are	
  Changing	
  The	
  Way	
  We	
  Work,	
  and	
  It's	
  All	
  Because	
  of	
  'Star	
  Wars'	
  
that,	
  what	
  did	
  we	
  watch?	
  Westerns	
  and	
  romance	
  and	
  mystery.	
  From	
  1977	
  on,	
  
the	
  new	
  generation	
  demanded	
  science	
  fiction.	
  From	
  Terminator	
  to	
  Back	
  to	
  the	
  
Future	
  to	
  even	
  The	
  Avengers	
  and	
  Iron	
  Man,	
  they	
  are	
  science	
  fiction-­‐driven.	
  But	
  
also	
  [in]	
  Lord	
  of	
  the	
  Rings	
  and	
  Harry	
  Potter,	
  what’s	
  the	
  main	
  story?	
  A	
  young	
  or	
  
little	
  person	
  uses	
  technology	
  or	
  magic	
  to	
  battle	
  evil	
  adults.	
  
	
  
“We’ve entered into a time where people don’t equate hard work
with getting ahead. Instead they want the work/life balance. They
watched their parents work themselves to death, and they don’t
want to do it.”
	
  
	
  
David:	
  Of	
  course,	
  there	
  being	
  no	
  real	
  difference	
  between	
  sophisticated	
  
technology	
  and	
  magic	
  anyway.	
  
	
  
Brad:	
  That’s	
  true.	
  
	
  
Those	
  hundreds	
  of	
  dot-­‐com	
  companies	
  that	
  were	
  formed	
  during	
  the	
  first	
  dot-­‐
com	
  boom,	
  98%	
  of	
  them	
  were	
  started	
  by	
  young	
  people	
  who	
  were	
  born	
  around	
  
1977.	
  So	
  that’ll	
  tell	
  you	
  how	
  influential	
  this	
  great	
  technological	
  wave	
  was.	
  My	
  
generation	
  was	
  taught	
  to	
  resist	
  technology,	
  [but]	
  the	
  new	
  generation	
  was	
  taught	
  
to	
  embrace	
  technology.	
  And	
  it	
  was	
  from	
  [interactive	
  video	
  games	
  and	
  the	
  
consequences	
  of	
  Star	
  Wars].	
  
	
  
But	
  there’s	
  a	
  third	
  part	
  to	
  this:	
  child-­‐centric	
  parenting	
  and	
  child-­‐centric	
  
curriculums	
  in	
  school.	
  When	
  my	
  dad	
  heard	
  about	
  child-­‐centric	
  parenting,	
  he	
  
said,	
  “You	
  know,	
  this	
  is	
  a	
  load	
  of	
  crap.”	
  A	
  lot	
  of	
  parents	
  said	
  that	
  at	
  the	
  time.	
  But	
  
what	
  started	
  to	
  take	
  [root]	
  was	
  the	
  idea	
  that	
  a	
  child	
  was	
  special,	
  and	
  shouldn’t	
  
be	
  paddled	
  or	
  controlled	
  or	
  yelled	
  at.	
  Instead,	
  [children	
  are]	
  taught	
  to	
  open	
  up	
  
their	
  unique	
  creative	
  gifts	
  so	
  that	
  they	
  can	
  find	
  their	
  own	
  way,	
  develop	
  their	
  
own	
  talents,	
  and	
  do	
  the	
  things	
  they	
  truly	
  want	
  to	
  do.	
  
	
  
A	
  lot	
  of	
  [kids]	
  were	
  encouraged	
  to	
  have	
  adult	
  conversations	
  inside	
  the	
  
household.	
  And	
  TV	
  shows	
  started	
  to	
  shift	
  as	
  well.	
  You	
  had	
  Doogie	
  Howser,	
  MD	
  
who	
  was	
  sixteen	
  and	
  a	
  surgeon,	
  and	
  he	
  was	
  having	
  conversations	
  with	
  adults.	
  
90210	
  was	
  having	
  all	
  these	
  conversations.	
  And	
  then	
  John	
  Hughes’	
  films	
  came	
  
out,	
  and	
  they	
  started	
  to	
  show	
  the	
  outlier	
  being	
  more	
  important	
  and	
  cooler	
  than	
  
the	
  football	
  jock.	
  So	
  what	
  did	
  that	
  do?	
  It	
  flattened	
  the	
  hierarchy	
  inside	
  the	
  
home.	
  
	
  
So	
  now	
  you	
  had	
  young	
  people	
  who	
  were	
  incredibly	
  comfortable	
  talking	
  to	
  their	
  
parents,	
  and	
  then	
  they	
  went	
  into	
  the	
  school	
  system	
  and	
  were	
  encouraged	
  to	
  
call	
  their	
  teacher	
  by	
  her	
  first	
  name.	
  They	
  were	
  taught	
  to	
  collaborate,	
  and	
  they	
  
 	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  Click	
  here	
  for	
  Original	
  Article:	
  Millennials	
  Are	
  Changing	
  The	
  Way	
  We	
  Work,	
  and	
  It's	
  All	
  Because	
  of	
  'Star	
  Wars'	
  
were	
  taught	
  they	
  were	
  special,	
  and	
  that	
  there	
  is	
  no	
  right	
  or	
  wrong	
  way	
  of	
  doing	
  
things.	
  And	
  all	
  of	
  a	
  sudden,	
  by	
  the	
  time	
  they	
  entered	
  the	
  corporate	
  world,	
  
people	
  were	
  shocked	
  when	
  they	
  would	
  walk	
  up	
  to	
  the	
  CEO	
  and	
  say,	
  “Hey,	
  I’m	
  
gonna	
  show	
  you	
  how	
  to	
  run	
  this	
  place,	
  ’cause	
  I	
  learned	
  it	
  in	
  college.”	
  
	
  
Millennials	
  are	
  independent	
  thinkers.	
  They	
  will	
  get	
  up,	
  en	
  masse,	
  and	
  leave	
  a	
  
company	
  overnight.	
  That	
  scenario	
  actually	
  played	
  out.	
  This	
  Fortune	
  500	
  
pharmaceutical	
  chemical	
  company	
  invited	
  a	
  hundred	
  interns	
  to	
  come	
  in	
  and	
  
work	
  for	
  them	
  for	
  ninety	
  days.	
  After	
  thirty	
  days,	
  they	
  all	
  quit	
  and	
  left	
  one	
  email	
  
for	
  the	
  CEO.	
  It	
  basically	
  said,	
  “You	
  people	
  are	
  evil.”	
  
	
  
And	
  I	
  have	
  to	
  look	
  closely	
  at	
  my	
  boomer	
  brethren	
  myself.	
  When	
  we	
  were	
  
disgruntled	
  at	
  work,	
  we	
  would	
  complain	
  and	
  fill	
  out	
  our	
  resume,	
  but	
  we	
  would	
  
stay	
  for	
  five	
  years.	
  And	
  then	
  we’d	
  go,	
  “You	
  know	
  what?	
  This	
  place	
  is	
  really	
  
getting	
  on	
  my	
  nerves.	
  I’ve	
  been	
  here	
  long	
  enough.	
  I’m	
  gonna	
  get	
  my	
  resume	
  
together.”	
  And	
  then	
  another	
  seven	
  years	
  go	
  by,	
  and	
  we’re	
  like,	
  “I	
  hate	
  this	
  place,	
  
[but]	
  I	
  have	
  a	
  mortgage,	
  and	
  I’ve	
  got	
  kids.”	
  And	
  then	
  after	
  twenty-­‐five	
  years,	
  
we’re	
  going,	
  “You	
  know,	
  this	
  place	
  wasn’t	
  that	
  bad.”	
  We	
  never	
  left.	
  
	
  
We	
  said	
  to	
  the	
  next	
  generation,	
  “Follow	
  your	
  passion.	
  Don’t	
  do	
  what	
  Mommy	
  
and	
  Daddy	
  did.	
  We	
  gave	
  our	
  lives	
  to	
  this	
  corporation,	
  and	
  we	
  lost	
  everything	
  in	
  
2008.”	
  They	
  learn	
  this	
  through	
  osmosis.	
  And	
  they	
  are	
  never	
  going	
  to	
  give	
  their	
  
heart	
  and	
  soul	
  to	
  a	
  company	
  unless	
  that	
  company	
  treats	
  them	
  with	
  respect.	
  
	
  
	
  
“Autonomy is the new badge of merit in a lot of organizations.”
	
  
	
  
David:	
  I	
  totally	
  agree.	
  Gen	
  X	
  is	
  smaller,	
  right?	
  As	
  boomers	
  are	
  phasing	
  out,	
  there	
  
are	
  not	
  [enough]	
  Gen	
  X-­‐ers	
  to	
  fill	
  the	
  managerial	
  and	
  senior	
  leadership	
  roles	
  that	
  
are	
  created	
  by	
  the	
  baby	
  boom	
  void.	
  So	
  you	
  have	
  to	
  tap	
  the	
  top	
  millennials.	
  Now	
  
you’ve	
  got	
  these	
  people	
  who	
  are	
  a	
  little	
  more	
  individualistic,	
  [who]	
  aren’t	
  
gonna	
  let	
  companies	
  control	
  their	
  hearts	
  and	
  souls.	
  But	
  also,	
  the	
  need	
  for	
  talent	
  
is	
  pushing	
  them	
  to	
  a	
  higher	
  level	
  faster	
  than	
  Gen	
  X.	
  
	
  
Brad:	
  You’re	
  absolutely	
  right.	
  Generation	
  X	
  is	
  a	
  smaller	
  portion	
  of	
  the	
  
population.	
  They	
  showed	
  up	
  early,	
  they	
  wore	
  the	
  suits,	
  they	
  obeyed	
  the	
  
boomers,	
  they	
  listened	
  to	
  everything,	
  they	
  worked	
  very	
  hard,	
  and	
  now	
  they’re	
  
ready	
  for	
  management.	
  But	
  guess	
  what?	
  A	
  lot	
  of	
  Gen	
  X-­‐ers	
  are	
  not	
  reaching	
  for	
  
the	
  big	
  salary	
  and	
  the	
  responsibility	
  of	
  that	
  upper-­‐management	
  role.	
  They	
  
simply	
  don’t	
  want	
  it.	
  We’ve	
  entered	
  into	
  a	
  time	
  where	
  people	
  don’t	
  equate	
  hard	
  
work	
  with	
  getting	
  ahead.	
  Instead	
  they	
  want	
  the	
  work/life	
  balance.	
  They	
  watched	
  
their	
  parents	
  work	
  themselves	
  to	
  death,	
  and	
  they	
  don’t	
  want	
  to	
  do	
  it.	
  
 	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  Click	
  here	
  for	
  Original	
  Article:	
  Millennials	
  Are	
  Changing	
  The	
  Way	
  We	
  Work,	
  and	
  It's	
  All	
  Because	
  of	
  'Star	
  Wars'	
  
This	
  generation	
  is	
  looking	
  at	
  us	
  as	
  if	
  we’re	
  crazy	
  because	
  technology	
  allows	
  
them	
  to	
  work	
  less	
  hours.	
  It’s	
  not	
  hours	
  anymore,	
  and	
  it’s	
  not	
  age	
  anymore,	
  that	
  
determines	
  your	
  success	
  in	
  a	
  company.	
  That	
  corner	
  office,	
  believe	
  it	
  or	
  not,	
  is	
  a	
  
status	
  symbol	
  of	
  the	
  20th	
  century.	
  The	
  industrial	
  age.	
  The	
  21st	
  century	
  is,	
  “What	
  
have	
  you	
  learned	
  lately	
  that	
  you	
  can	
  contribute	
  to	
  the	
  team?”	
  
	
  
David:	
  I	
  would	
  say	
  too	
  that	
  autonomy	
  is	
  the	
  new	
  badge	
  of	
  merit	
  in	
  a	
  lot	
  of	
  
organizations.	
  Jeff	
  Pfeffer	
  has	
  this	
  quote	
  that	
  you	
  can	
  empower,	
  you	
  can	
  have	
  
autonomy,	
  but	
  you	
  can’t	
  have	
  them	
  both.	
  And	
  a	
  good	
  portion	
  of	
  the	
  up-­‐and-­‐
coming	
  generation	
  is	
  picking	
  autonomy.	
  As	
  Cal	
  Newport	
  would	
  say,	
  “I	
  want	
  to	
  be	
  
so	
  good	
  they	
  can’t	
  ignore	
  [me],	
  so	
  that	
  I	
  have	
  leverage	
  to	
  ask	
  for	
  things	
  that	
  
[give]	
  me	
  more	
  autonomy	
  over	
  my	
  job	
  than	
  anything	
  else.”	
  
	
  
Brad:	
  Yes.	
  And	
  they’ve	
  found	
  out	
  that	
  when	
  people	
  are	
  given	
  that	
  autonomy,	
  
when	
  they’re	
  given	
  the	
  freedom	
  to	
  make	
  their	
  own	
  decisions,	
  they	
  actually	
  work	
  
harder	
  than	
  if	
  they	
  had	
  a	
  boss	
  that	
  was	
  driving	
  them	
  and	
  yelling	
  at	
  them.	
  
	
  
David:	
  It	
  takes	
  respect	
  and	
  [firmness],	
  but	
  it	
  [also]	
  takes	
  replacing	
  hierarchy	
  with	
  
meritocracy.	
  I’m	
  thinking	
  about	
  your	
  video	
  game	
  analogy.	
  Telling	
  someone	
  
“You’ve	
  just	
  got	
  to	
  pay	
  your	
  dues	
  before	
  you	
  can	
  have	
  that	
  next	
  opportunity”	
  is	
  
like	
  saying,	
  “You	
  just	
  have	
  to	
  play	
  the	
  game	
  for	
  a	
  certain	
  number	
  of	
  hours.”	
  [But]	
  
the	
  world	
  record	
  for	
  beating	
  Super	
  Mario	
  Brothers	
  3	
  is	
  like	
  four	
  minutes;	
  it’s	
  not	
  
a	
  question	
  of	
  how	
  long	
  you	
  play	
  it.	
  It’s,	
  “Did	
  you	
  acquire	
  the	
  skill	
  to	
  level	
  up?	
  
Then	
  you	
  should	
  be	
  allowed	
  to	
  level	
  up.”	
  
	
  
	
  
“If you’re looking for “How do you cope with all these changes?’ I
would say, ‘Begin to separate presence from productivity.’”
	
  
	
  
Brad:	
  The	
  CEO	
  of	
  RACKn,	
  Rob	
  Hirschfeld	
  and	
  I	
  came	
  up	
  with	
  this	
  analogy;	
  If	
  a	
  
millennial	
  is	
  the	
  best	
  at	
  digging	
  ditches,	
  and	
  an	
  old	
  guy	
  has	
  been	
  there	
  for	
  forty	
  
years	
  and	
  is	
  slowing	
  down,	
  the	
  millennial	
  believes	
  they	
  should	
  be	
  in	
  charge	
  of	
  
digging	
  those	
  ditches.	
  It’s	
  just	
  simply,	
  “If	
  my	
  skillset	
  is	
  better	
  than	
  yours,	
  [you]	
  
have	
  to	
  get	
  out	
  of	
  the	
  way,	
  and	
  let	
  me	
  do	
  my	
  job	
  and	
  manage	
  everyone	
  else.”	
  	
  
	
  
And	
  that	
  can	
  be	
  confusing	
  to	
  a	
  boomer	
  who’s	
  basing	
  their	
  entire	
  career	
  on	
  age.	
  A	
  
Millennial’s	
  coming	
  up	
  from	
  the	
  bottom	
  and	
  saying,	
  “Look.	
  I’m	
  the	
  fastest	
  at	
  
doing	
  this.	
  You’re	
  slowing	
  the	
  company	
  down.	
  Get	
  out	
  of	
  the	
  way	
  and	
  let	
  me	
  run	
  
this.”	
  And	
  in	
  many	
  ways	
  they’re	
  right.	
  You	
  may	
  be	
  the	
  Boomer	
  who’s	
  bottle-­‐
necking	
  everything	
  and	
  not	
  know	
  it.	
  
	
  
 	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  Click	
  here	
  for	
  Original	
  Article:	
  Millennials	
  Are	
  Changing	
  The	
  Way	
  We	
  Work,	
  and	
  It's	
  All	
  Because	
  of	
  'Star	
  Wars'	
  
It’s	
  going	
  to	
  take	
  a	
  very	
  dynamic	
  leader	
  to	
  not	
  only	
  communicate	
  extremely	
  well,	
  
but	
  [also]	
  see	
  what	
  still	
  works	
  well	
  in	
  the	
  business	
  cycle,	
  let	
  go	
  of	
  what	
  is	
  no	
  
longer	
  viable,	
  and	
  listen	
  to	
  a	
  younger	
  person.	
  Or	
  take	
  them	
  seriously,	
  to	
  get	
  the	
  
best	
  out	
  of	
  them	
  while	
  not	
  discrediting	
  their	
  enthusiasm,	
  their	
  ambition,	
  their	
  
need	
  to	
  prove	
  themselves.	
  
	
  
David:	
  You	
  said	
  two	
  key	
  phrases	
  there	
  that	
  I’m	
  convinced	
  are	
  the	
  recipe	
  for	
  
survival	
  in	
  leading	
  the	
  future	
  of	
  work,	
  which	
  are	
  “listening”	
  and	
  “letting	
  go.”	
  
Listening	
  to	
  your	
  people	
  and	
  figuring	
  out	
  what	
  is	
  causing	
  frustrations,	
  and	
  what	
  
are	
  they	
  seeing	
  that	
  you	
  can’t	
  see?	
  And	
  then	
  eliminating	
  those	
  barriers,	
  barriers	
  
to	
  your	
  ability	
  to	
  see	
  what	
  they	
  see,	
  or	
  barriers	
  to	
  them	
  doing	
  their	
  best	
  work.	
  
	
  
Brad:	
  Right.	
  If	
  you’re	
  a	
  boomer,	
  remember	
  how	
  we	
  were	
  managed?	
  When	
  the	
  
boss	
  was	
  there,	
  what	
  did	
  you	
  do?	
  We	
  started	
  to	
  look	
  busy	
  ’cause	
  we	
  were	
  
afraid	
  of	
  our	
  boss.	
  We	
  only	
  obeyed	
  the	
  rules	
  and	
  showed	
  up	
  early	
  to	
  show	
  that	
  
we	
  were	
  doing	
  our	
  work.	
  And	
  what	
  did	
  you	
  do	
  with	
  the	
  knowledge	
  that	
  you	
  had	
  
gained?	
  You	
  hoarded	
  it.	
  And	
  when	
  the	
  boss	
  was	
  around,	
  you	
  would	
  show	
  how	
  
awesome	
  you	
  were	
  at	
  something.	
  We	
  were	
  knowledge	
  hoarders.	
  When	
  
management	
  walked	
  away,	
  what’d	
  we	
  do?	
  “We	
  can	
  relax	
  now.”	
  Now	
  the	
  boss	
  
has	
  to	
  be	
  there	
  in	
  order	
  to	
  make	
  sure	
  the	
  work	
  gets	
  done	
  on	
  time.	
  
	
  
I	
  know	
  executive	
  vice	
  presidents	
  who	
  are	
  Millennials	
  in	
  the	
  oil	
  and	
  gas	
  industry.	
  
And	
  they	
  [say	
  to]	
  their	
  employees,	
  “If	
  you	
  finish	
  your	
  work	
  in	
  two	
  hours,	
  go	
  to	
  the	
  
beach.	
  But	
  you	
  damn	
  well	
  better	
  not	
  miss	
  that	
  deadline.”	
  That’s	
  how	
  they	
  
operate.	
  So	
  you	
  have	
  a	
  younger	
  worker	
  who	
  wants	
  to	
  work	
  faster,	
  wants	
  to	
  work	
  
more	
  efficiently,	
  and	
  doesn’t	
  understand	
  why	
  you	
  [may]	
  want	
  them	
  to	
  just	
  sit	
  
there	
  for	
  three	
  hours	
  until	
  the	
  clock	
  hits	
  a	
  certain	
  stroke.	
  They’ve	
  been	
  raised	
  so	
  
differently.	
  They	
  [don’t	
  know]	
  they	
  should	
  be	
  obedient	
  to	
  you	
  or	
  fear	
  you	
  or	
  
they	
  should	
  get	
  their	
  work	
  in	
  early	
  or	
  put	
  in	
  extra	
  hours.	
  They	
  don’t	
  know	
  any	
  
of	
  that.	
  And	
  maybe	
  they	
  don’t	
  need	
  to	
  know	
  that.	
  
	
  
David:	
  I	
  think	
  that’s	
  a	
  really	
  good	
  start	
  to	
  give	
  people.	
  If	
  you’re	
  looking	
  for	
  “How	
  
do	
  you	
  cope	
  with	
  all	
  these	
  changes?”	
  I	
  would	
  say,	
  “Begin	
  to	
  separate	
  presence	
  
from	
  productivity.”	
  
	
  
Final	
  question.	
  In	
  your	
  view,	
  what	
  makes	
  someone	
  a	
  leader?	
  
	
  
Brad:	
  Leadership	
  is	
  an	
  individual	
  thing.	
  We	
  all	
  have	
  our	
  own	
  style.	
  For	
  me,	
  it	
  is	
  
setting	
  the	
  standard	
  for	
  people	
  to	
  follow.	
  But	
  at	
  the	
  same	
  time,	
  being	
  aware	
  
and	
  open-­‐hearted	
  enough	
  that	
  you	
  can	
  see	
  the	
  talent	
  in	
  a	
  person	
  that	
  they	
  don’t	
  
know	
  they	
  have,	
  and	
  elevating	
  them	
  to	
  be	
  their	
  very	
  best.	
  And	
  in	
  some	
  cases,	
  
even	
  better	
  than	
  you.	
  The	
  old	
  saying	
  is,	
  “A	
  true	
  leader	
  helps	
  others	
  become	
  
leaders.”	
  I	
  truly	
  believe	
  that.	
  
	
  
 	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  Click	
  here	
  for	
  Original	
  Article:	
  Millennials	
  Are	
  Changing	
  The	
  Way	
  We	
  Work,	
  and	
  It's	
  All	
  Because	
  of	
  'Star	
  Wars'	
  
	
  
This conversation has been edited and condensed from the original
audio interview.
	
  
	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  
	
  
To	
  listen	
  to	
  the	
  full	
  audio	
  version,	
  click	
  below:	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
Radio	
  Free	
  LEADER	
  with	
  David	
  Burkus	
  
Episode	
  801:	
  How	
  to	
  Work	
  With	
  Millennials	
  	
  
with	
  Brad	
  Szollose	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  	
  Click	
  here	
  for	
  Original	
  Article:	
  Millennials	
  Are	
  Changing	
  The	
  Way	
  We	
  Work,	
  and	
  It's	
  All	
  Because	
  of	
  'Star	
  Wars'	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
	
  
Interested	
  in	
  Brad’s	
  Leadership	
  	
  
&	
  Talent	
  Development	
  Programs	
  	
  
for	
  YOUR	
  Organization?	
  
	
  	
  
Leadership Lessons for The 21st
Century
Customized Workshops, Training
and Executive Coaching for
Talent Development, Retention
and Innovation.
For 21st Century Leadership Strategies,
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Millennials Are Changing The Way We Work...and It's All Because of Star Wars

  • 1.              Click  here  for  Original  Article:  Millennials  Are  Changing  The  Way  We  Work,  and  It's  All  Because  of  'Star  Wars'                                 Millennials are Changing the Way We Work, and It’s All Because of ‘Star Wars’ We’ve  entered  into  a  time  where  people  don’t  equate  hard  work     with  getting  ahead.  Instead  they  want  the  work/life  balance.     They  watched  their  parents  work  themselves  to  death,  and  they     don’t  want  to  do  that.”    —  Brad  Szollose     By  Jeremy  Price  Jun  6,  2017         David  Burkus  is  an  award-­‐winning  podcaster  and  author  of  Under  New   Management:  How  Leading  Organizations  Are  Upending  Business  as  Usual.     He  recently  hosted  Brad  Szollose,  author  of  the  award-­‐winning  business  book   Liquid  Leadership,  is  a  global  business  advisor  who  helps  companies  understand   how  technology  has  transformed  corporate  culture  and  the  behavior  of   Generation  Y  Millennials,  to  discuss  how  the  influences  of  video  games,  Star   Wars,  and  more  are  helping  Millennials  transform  the  workplace  for  good.     Continued  on  Next  Page…   Life-­‐changing  ideas  from  the  world’s  great  thinkers.  Served  daily.  
  • 2.              Click  here  for  Original  Article:  Millennials  Are  Changing  The  Way  We  Work,  and  It's  All  Because  of  'Star  Wars'   David:  As  you’ve  explored  in  your  book,  Liquid  Leadership,  times  are  changing,   and  leadership  styles  are  changing.  I  wonder  if  you  could  take  us  back  to  how   you  arrived  at  this  [conclusion].     Brad:  Around  the  early  90s,  I  started  a  company  called  K2  Design  with  my   business  partner  at  the  time,  Douglas  Cleek.  A  year  later,  he  comes  into  the   office.  He  says,  “Dude.  We  have  to  become  an  Internet  company,”  and  I  say,   “What  the  heck’s  the  internet?”  In  the  early  90s,  very  few  people  knew  what     the  internet  was.     As  soon  as  we  started  building  our  first  websites,  we  exploded.  425%  hyper-­‐ growth  for  five  straight  years.  It  went  from  just  me  and  a  business  partner  to   sixty  employees.  [But]  the  behavior  of  this  next  generation  [of  employees]  was   driving  me  up  a  wall.  We  had  a  generational  issue.  You  have  a  new  generation   that’s  been  trained  and  influenced  by  three  major  things.     First,  let’s  go  back  in  time.  Around  1977,  these  new  things  came  into  our  world   called  “video  games.”  How  do  you  learn  in  a  video  game?     David:  You  die  and  then  you  try  again.     Brad:  You  learn  the  rules  intuitively.  You  push  against,  you  test,  you  fail  as  much   as  you  can  so  that  you  can  figure  out  what  the  rules  and  the  politics  are.  Now  if   you’re  a  baby  boomer,  you  remember  playing  Monopoly.  You  had  to  read  the   box,  take  your  time,  learn  the  rules,  and  then  you  could  play  the  game.     So  what  happened  is  a  new  generation  was  raised   with  all  this  interactivity.  They  didn’t  just  sit  and   watch  a  television  show.  Everything  became   interactive:  Teddy  Ruxpin,  Speak  and  Spell,  things  like   that.  And  in  the  video  game  world,  leadership  is   rotational.  Everybody  is  used  according  to  their  skill  set   within  the  parameters  of  the  quest.  So  video  games  are  a  huge  component  to   the  behavior  of  millennials.     The  second  big  piece  that  influenced  this  next  generation  is  Star  Wars.  It   changed  our  perspective  on  how  to  use  technology  in  a  ubiquitous  way.  Just  like   using  a  toaster  or  driving  a  car,  Star  Wars  showed  us  what  a  T1  line  would  look   like.  Or  how  to  use  a  pad  or  a  robot,  or  even  a  wifi  network.  And  this  was   shown  to  us  at  a  time  when  we  had  rotary  dial  phones.     It  didn’t  matter  where  you  were;  everybody  started  to  see  Star  Wars.  And  from   that  moment  on,  if  you  look  at  the  top  10  blockbuster  movies  in  the  last  30-­‐35   years,  seven  of  them  have  either  been  science  fiction  or  fantasy-­‐driven.  Before  
  • 3.              Click  here  for  Original  Article:  Millennials  Are  Changing  The  Way  We  Work,  and  It's  All  Because  of  'Star  Wars'   that,  what  did  we  watch?  Westerns  and  romance  and  mystery.  From  1977  on,   the  new  generation  demanded  science  fiction.  From  Terminator  to  Back  to  the   Future  to  even  The  Avengers  and  Iron  Man,  they  are  science  fiction-­‐driven.  But   also  [in]  Lord  of  the  Rings  and  Harry  Potter,  what’s  the  main  story?  A  young  or   little  person  uses  technology  or  magic  to  battle  evil  adults.     “We’ve entered into a time where people don’t equate hard work with getting ahead. Instead they want the work/life balance. They watched their parents work themselves to death, and they don’t want to do it.”     David:  Of  course,  there  being  no  real  difference  between  sophisticated   technology  and  magic  anyway.     Brad:  That’s  true.     Those  hundreds  of  dot-­‐com  companies  that  were  formed  during  the  first  dot-­‐ com  boom,  98%  of  them  were  started  by  young  people  who  were  born  around   1977.  So  that’ll  tell  you  how  influential  this  great  technological  wave  was.  My   generation  was  taught  to  resist  technology,  [but]  the  new  generation  was  taught   to  embrace  technology.  And  it  was  from  [interactive  video  games  and  the   consequences  of  Star  Wars].     But  there’s  a  third  part  to  this:  child-­‐centric  parenting  and  child-­‐centric   curriculums  in  school.  When  my  dad  heard  about  child-­‐centric  parenting,  he   said,  “You  know,  this  is  a  load  of  crap.”  A  lot  of  parents  said  that  at  the  time.  But   what  started  to  take  [root]  was  the  idea  that  a  child  was  special,  and  shouldn’t   be  paddled  or  controlled  or  yelled  at.  Instead,  [children  are]  taught  to  open  up   their  unique  creative  gifts  so  that  they  can  find  their  own  way,  develop  their   own  talents,  and  do  the  things  they  truly  want  to  do.     A  lot  of  [kids]  were  encouraged  to  have  adult  conversations  inside  the   household.  And  TV  shows  started  to  shift  as  well.  You  had  Doogie  Howser,  MD   who  was  sixteen  and  a  surgeon,  and  he  was  having  conversations  with  adults.   90210  was  having  all  these  conversations.  And  then  John  Hughes’  films  came   out,  and  they  started  to  show  the  outlier  being  more  important  and  cooler  than   the  football  jock.  So  what  did  that  do?  It  flattened  the  hierarchy  inside  the   home.     So  now  you  had  young  people  who  were  incredibly  comfortable  talking  to  their   parents,  and  then  they  went  into  the  school  system  and  were  encouraged  to   call  their  teacher  by  her  first  name.  They  were  taught  to  collaborate,  and  they  
  • 4.              Click  here  for  Original  Article:  Millennials  Are  Changing  The  Way  We  Work,  and  It's  All  Because  of  'Star  Wars'   were  taught  they  were  special,  and  that  there  is  no  right  or  wrong  way  of  doing   things.  And  all  of  a  sudden,  by  the  time  they  entered  the  corporate  world,   people  were  shocked  when  they  would  walk  up  to  the  CEO  and  say,  “Hey,  I’m   gonna  show  you  how  to  run  this  place,  ’cause  I  learned  it  in  college.”     Millennials  are  independent  thinkers.  They  will  get  up,  en  masse,  and  leave  a   company  overnight.  That  scenario  actually  played  out.  This  Fortune  500   pharmaceutical  chemical  company  invited  a  hundred  interns  to  come  in  and   work  for  them  for  ninety  days.  After  thirty  days,  they  all  quit  and  left  one  email   for  the  CEO.  It  basically  said,  “You  people  are  evil.”     And  I  have  to  look  closely  at  my  boomer  brethren  myself.  When  we  were   disgruntled  at  work,  we  would  complain  and  fill  out  our  resume,  but  we  would   stay  for  five  years.  And  then  we’d  go,  “You  know  what?  This  place  is  really   getting  on  my  nerves.  I’ve  been  here  long  enough.  I’m  gonna  get  my  resume   together.”  And  then  another  seven  years  go  by,  and  we’re  like,  “I  hate  this  place,   [but]  I  have  a  mortgage,  and  I’ve  got  kids.”  And  then  after  twenty-­‐five  years,   we’re  going,  “You  know,  this  place  wasn’t  that  bad.”  We  never  left.     We  said  to  the  next  generation,  “Follow  your  passion.  Don’t  do  what  Mommy   and  Daddy  did.  We  gave  our  lives  to  this  corporation,  and  we  lost  everything  in   2008.”  They  learn  this  through  osmosis.  And  they  are  never  going  to  give  their   heart  and  soul  to  a  company  unless  that  company  treats  them  with  respect.       “Autonomy is the new badge of merit in a lot of organizations.”     David:  I  totally  agree.  Gen  X  is  smaller,  right?  As  boomers  are  phasing  out,  there   are  not  [enough]  Gen  X-­‐ers  to  fill  the  managerial  and  senior  leadership  roles  that   are  created  by  the  baby  boom  void.  So  you  have  to  tap  the  top  millennials.  Now   you’ve  got  these  people  who  are  a  little  more  individualistic,  [who]  aren’t   gonna  let  companies  control  their  hearts  and  souls.  But  also,  the  need  for  talent   is  pushing  them  to  a  higher  level  faster  than  Gen  X.     Brad:  You’re  absolutely  right.  Generation  X  is  a  smaller  portion  of  the   population.  They  showed  up  early,  they  wore  the  suits,  they  obeyed  the   boomers,  they  listened  to  everything,  they  worked  very  hard,  and  now  they’re   ready  for  management.  But  guess  what?  A  lot  of  Gen  X-­‐ers  are  not  reaching  for   the  big  salary  and  the  responsibility  of  that  upper-­‐management  role.  They   simply  don’t  want  it.  We’ve  entered  into  a  time  where  people  don’t  equate  hard   work  with  getting  ahead.  Instead  they  want  the  work/life  balance.  They  watched   their  parents  work  themselves  to  death,  and  they  don’t  want  to  do  it.  
  • 5.              Click  here  for  Original  Article:  Millennials  Are  Changing  The  Way  We  Work,  and  It's  All  Because  of  'Star  Wars'   This  generation  is  looking  at  us  as  if  we’re  crazy  because  technology  allows   them  to  work  less  hours.  It’s  not  hours  anymore,  and  it’s  not  age  anymore,  that   determines  your  success  in  a  company.  That  corner  office,  believe  it  or  not,  is  a   status  symbol  of  the  20th  century.  The  industrial  age.  The  21st  century  is,  “What   have  you  learned  lately  that  you  can  contribute  to  the  team?”     David:  I  would  say  too  that  autonomy  is  the  new  badge  of  merit  in  a  lot  of   organizations.  Jeff  Pfeffer  has  this  quote  that  you  can  empower,  you  can  have   autonomy,  but  you  can’t  have  them  both.  And  a  good  portion  of  the  up-­‐and-­‐ coming  generation  is  picking  autonomy.  As  Cal  Newport  would  say,  “I  want  to  be   so  good  they  can’t  ignore  [me],  so  that  I  have  leverage  to  ask  for  things  that   [give]  me  more  autonomy  over  my  job  than  anything  else.”     Brad:  Yes.  And  they’ve  found  out  that  when  people  are  given  that  autonomy,   when  they’re  given  the  freedom  to  make  their  own  decisions,  they  actually  work   harder  than  if  they  had  a  boss  that  was  driving  them  and  yelling  at  them.     David:  It  takes  respect  and  [firmness],  but  it  [also]  takes  replacing  hierarchy  with   meritocracy.  I’m  thinking  about  your  video  game  analogy.  Telling  someone   “You’ve  just  got  to  pay  your  dues  before  you  can  have  that  next  opportunity”  is   like  saying,  “You  just  have  to  play  the  game  for  a  certain  number  of  hours.”  [But]   the  world  record  for  beating  Super  Mario  Brothers  3  is  like  four  minutes;  it’s  not   a  question  of  how  long  you  play  it.  It’s,  “Did  you  acquire  the  skill  to  level  up?   Then  you  should  be  allowed  to  level  up.”       “If you’re looking for “How do you cope with all these changes?’ I would say, ‘Begin to separate presence from productivity.’”     Brad:  The  CEO  of  RACKn,  Rob  Hirschfeld  and  I  came  up  with  this  analogy;  If  a   millennial  is  the  best  at  digging  ditches,  and  an  old  guy  has  been  there  for  forty   years  and  is  slowing  down,  the  millennial  believes  they  should  be  in  charge  of   digging  those  ditches.  It’s  just  simply,  “If  my  skillset  is  better  than  yours,  [you]   have  to  get  out  of  the  way,  and  let  me  do  my  job  and  manage  everyone  else.”       And  that  can  be  confusing  to  a  boomer  who’s  basing  their  entire  career  on  age.  A   Millennial’s  coming  up  from  the  bottom  and  saying,  “Look.  I’m  the  fastest  at   doing  this.  You’re  slowing  the  company  down.  Get  out  of  the  way  and  let  me  run   this.”  And  in  many  ways  they’re  right.  You  may  be  the  Boomer  who’s  bottle-­‐ necking  everything  and  not  know  it.    
  • 6.              Click  here  for  Original  Article:  Millennials  Are  Changing  The  Way  We  Work,  and  It's  All  Because  of  'Star  Wars'   It’s  going  to  take  a  very  dynamic  leader  to  not  only  communicate  extremely  well,   but  [also]  see  what  still  works  well  in  the  business  cycle,  let  go  of  what  is  no   longer  viable,  and  listen  to  a  younger  person.  Or  take  them  seriously,  to  get  the   best  out  of  them  while  not  discrediting  their  enthusiasm,  their  ambition,  their   need  to  prove  themselves.     David:  You  said  two  key  phrases  there  that  I’m  convinced  are  the  recipe  for   survival  in  leading  the  future  of  work,  which  are  “listening”  and  “letting  go.”   Listening  to  your  people  and  figuring  out  what  is  causing  frustrations,  and  what   are  they  seeing  that  you  can’t  see?  And  then  eliminating  those  barriers,  barriers   to  your  ability  to  see  what  they  see,  or  barriers  to  them  doing  their  best  work.     Brad:  Right.  If  you’re  a  boomer,  remember  how  we  were  managed?  When  the   boss  was  there,  what  did  you  do?  We  started  to  look  busy  ’cause  we  were   afraid  of  our  boss.  We  only  obeyed  the  rules  and  showed  up  early  to  show  that   we  were  doing  our  work.  And  what  did  you  do  with  the  knowledge  that  you  had   gained?  You  hoarded  it.  And  when  the  boss  was  around,  you  would  show  how   awesome  you  were  at  something.  We  were  knowledge  hoarders.  When   management  walked  away,  what’d  we  do?  “We  can  relax  now.”  Now  the  boss   has  to  be  there  in  order  to  make  sure  the  work  gets  done  on  time.     I  know  executive  vice  presidents  who  are  Millennials  in  the  oil  and  gas  industry.   And  they  [say  to]  their  employees,  “If  you  finish  your  work  in  two  hours,  go  to  the   beach.  But  you  damn  well  better  not  miss  that  deadline.”  That’s  how  they   operate.  So  you  have  a  younger  worker  who  wants  to  work  faster,  wants  to  work   more  efficiently,  and  doesn’t  understand  why  you  [may]  want  them  to  just  sit   there  for  three  hours  until  the  clock  hits  a  certain  stroke.  They’ve  been  raised  so   differently.  They  [don’t  know]  they  should  be  obedient  to  you  or  fear  you  or   they  should  get  their  work  in  early  or  put  in  extra  hours.  They  don’t  know  any   of  that.  And  maybe  they  don’t  need  to  know  that.     David:  I  think  that’s  a  really  good  start  to  give  people.  If  you’re  looking  for  “How   do  you  cope  with  all  these  changes?”  I  would  say,  “Begin  to  separate  presence   from  productivity.”     Final  question.  In  your  view,  what  makes  someone  a  leader?     Brad:  Leadership  is  an  individual  thing.  We  all  have  our  own  style.  For  me,  it  is   setting  the  standard  for  people  to  follow.  But  at  the  same  time,  being  aware   and  open-­‐hearted  enough  that  you  can  see  the  talent  in  a  person  that  they  don’t   know  they  have,  and  elevating  them  to  be  their  very  best.  And  in  some  cases,   even  better  than  you.  The  old  saying  is,  “A  true  leader  helps  others  become   leaders.”  I  truly  believe  that.    
  • 7.              Click  here  for  Original  Article:  Millennials  Are  Changing  The  Way  We  Work,  and  It's  All  Because  of  'Star  Wars'     This conversation has been edited and condensed from the original audio interview.                         To  listen  to  the  full  audio  version,  click  below:         Radio  Free  LEADER  with  David  Burkus   Episode  801:  How  to  Work  With  Millennials     with  Brad  Szollose                        Click  here  for  Original  Article:  Millennials  Are  Changing  The  Way  We  Work,  and  It's  All  Because  of  'Star  Wars'           Interested  in  Brad’s  Leadership     &  Talent  Development  Programs     for  YOUR  Organization?       Leadership Lessons for The 21st Century Customized Workshops, Training and Executive Coaching for Talent Development, Retention and Innovation. For 21st Century Leadership Strategies, Gamification Environments, Workshops, Keynotes and Consulting, email us at info@liquidleadership.com *  Photos  of  actual  audience  members