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       HARNESSING THE POWER OF
     PINTEREST FOR YOUR BUSINESS


               Indie Biz Chicks Virtual Conference
                                               April 25, 2012

                Presented by Simone Collins from Prime Publishing

Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                  4/25/12
About me!
                                 (who the heck is this chick?)

                                                     2

                                    Simone Collins
                                    Director of Social Media & Editorial Director
                                    Prime Publishing, LLC in Northbrook, Illinois

                                    www.spazzgirl.com
                                    Twitter: @spazzgirl
                                    www.pinterest.com/spazzgirl




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                  4/25/12
3

                                        1. Generates more referral traffic to
  Pinterest                                websites than YouTube, Google+,
                                           and Linkedin combined.
    Facts
                                        2. Hit 10 million US monthly unique
                                           visitors faster than any other
                                           independent site.
                                            1.       There are almost 12 million users
                                            2.       9 million monthly Facebook connected
                                                     users
                                        3. Users spend more time on Pinterest
                                           than Facebook or Twitter
                                        4. Over 80% of pins are repins
                                        5. 47% of US consumers have made a
                                           purchase based on a pin
Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                     4/25/12
The Pin Down
                                (What we are going to cover)

                                                     4

      1. SET UP FOR BRAND POWER
      2. POWER PINNING
      3 . M A K I N G B O A R D S T H AT A R E N ’ T B O R I N G
      4. FOLLOWING AND GETTING FOLLOWED
      5. NETWORKING
      6 . P I N N I N G TO P L E A S E T H E M A S S E S
      7 . P I N T E R E S T TO O L S

Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins             4/25/12
Set Up For Brand Power
                                                     5




1. Choosing a name for your account

2. Choosing an avatar photo

3. About section

4. Adding your links, linking your account


Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins       4/25/12
6
                                      My personal account – my name and URL is spazzgirl

 Set Up
 For
 Brand                                Website account – username & URL is brand name

 Power

 Choosing a
 name & URL                           Blogger account – her name & blog name with blog URL



 How will people find
 YOU?

Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                  4/25/12
7
                                      My account – my photo, which I change infrequently.

 Set Up
 For
 Brand
                                      Website account – we use only our logos, always.
 Power

 Choosing
 an avatar                            Blogger account – uses her logo everywhere


 How will people
 recognize YOU?


Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                       4/25/12
8

                                      • You have 2 ½ lines of text to convey to a user who
 Set Up                                 you are and why they would want to click to your site,
                                        Facebook account, or Twitter.
 For Brand                            • Use strong words to convey what you have to offer
 Power                                  on your site as opposed to here on Pinterest.
                                         • We have „Free Projects‟, „We feature weekly
                                            giveaways‟

                                      • Keep it brief and concise, straight forward, and in the
 The About                              same voice as your business.
 Section

 What do you want
 people to know
 about you?



Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                       4/25/12
9

                                      • You can easily connect and promote:
 Set Up                                  • Twitter
                                         • Your Website
 For                                     • Your Location

 Brand                                • Facebook Pages
                                         • Currently, you can only sync your personal
 Power                                      account

                                      • Be sure you aren‟t hiding from search engines

 Adding
 Links

 Where can people
 find you?


Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                      4/25/12
Power Pinning
                                                     10




1. What should I pin?

2. How much should I pin?

3. Making your pins the best.

4. Hashtags work great!


Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins        4/25/12
11

                                        • Ask yourself, what do people search for?

 Power                                  • What do I have of value?

 Pinning                                • What will be of value to people who follow me?




 What
 should I
 pin?

 Pinning content
 that makes people
 like you!


Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                     4/25/12
12

                                        • You must pin to get a repinned.

 Power                                  • Follow the 80/20 rule of social media.
                                        • Vary your times of the day that you pin content.
 Pinning                                • If you‟ve spent a long time working on a project,
                                          article, new product… it deserves the 2 minutes to
                                          pin it.

 How much                               • Make sure you are offering the Pin It button on
                                          your site and utilize the bookmarklet feature.
 should I
 pin?

 If you pin it, they
 will click.



Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                      4/25/12
13

                                        • Pin descriptions should be very keyword heavy.

 Power                                  • Make sure they encourage people to want to click
                                          through, pretty is great but being valuable is way
 Pinning                                  more important.
                                        • Keep them short and sweet.
                                        • Use brand names or author names when possible.
 How to
 Make your
 Pins the
 best

 Descriptions and
 tags

Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                      4/25/12
14

                                        • Normal Hashtag rules apply, no more than three,

 Power                                    use sparingly

                                        • Use your most powerful words
 Pinning                                • Use in context where applicable
                                        • Add words that are not easily added in context to
                                          your description
 Hashtags
 work great!

 Help pinners find
 your content by
 using hashtags




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                      4/25/12
Pin Examples
                                                     15




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins        4/25/12
Making Boards That Aren’t Boring
                                                     16




1. Categories

2. Titles and descriptions

3. Choosing board themes




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins        4/25/12
17

                                        • Every board should be in a category.

 Making                                 • Adding boards on the fly will not categorize them.

 Boards                                 • Make sure your board themes are true to the
                                          category.

                                        • Place the board in the category that it will perform
                                          best.
 Categories

 Placing boards in
 categories helps
 the search
 immensely.




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                        4/25/12
18

                                        • Short and concise titles work best

 Making                                 • Use your most powerful words

 Boards                                 • Write descriptions that add to the calue of the title
                                          of the board.
                                        • Use keywords that people search for on Pinterest
                                          in your description.
 Titles and
 Descriptions

 Describes the
 board as well as
 makes it more
 searchable.



Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                         4/25/12
19

                                        • Board themes should follow editorial schedules

 Making                                 • Follow the trends

 Boards                                 • Break down your pins into smaller categories




 Choosing
 Board
 Themes

 What kinds of
 boards should you
 post?


Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                       4/25/12
Following and Getting Followed
                                                     20




1. How to find people to follow

2. Following boards or people

3. How to get people to follow you




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins        4/25/12
21



 Following
                                        • Research your
 & Getting                                competitors, who are
                                          THEY following
 Followed
                                        • Follow people in your
                                          network
                                        • Follow your best followers
 How To Find
 People to
 Follow

 Who should I be
 following?


Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                     4/25/12
22

                                        • Follow boards that will be useful to you
 Following                              • Don‟t blindly follow a person
 & Getting
 Followed

 Following
 Boards, not
 People

 Being choosy about
 what you follow


Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                   4/25/12
23

                                        • Let people know you have a Pinterest account
 Following                              • Tweet or Facebook your pins

 & Getting                              • Use a Pinterest feature in your
                                          newsletters
 Followed
                                        • Add Pinterest to your email
                                          signature

 How To Get
 People To
 Follow You

 You have the boards
 and pins, now what?


Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                   4/25/12
Networking
                                                     24




1. Contributor boards

2. Setting up a “pin club”




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins        4/25/12
25

                                        • You can only add people who you already follow
 Networking                             • Email them to invite them to collaborate on a board
                                          together
                                        • Boards appear on all accounts

 Contributor
 Boards

 Adding people to
 your boards will
 cut out some work
 and help you cross
 promote




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                      4/25/12
26

                                        • You can only add people who you already follow
 Networking                             • Will increase the exposure of your links across
                                          multiple channels
                                        • Boards appear on all accounts

 Setting up a                           • Setting up the club:
 “pin club”                                    • Email them to invite them to collaborate on a
                                                 board together
                                               • Form a group of fellow indie biz owners
 Working in your
 network to                                    • Decide on number of links each person can
 promote your                                    submit each week
 work, goods, etc.                             • Send links with the same subject line each
                                                 week




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                         4/25/12
Pinning to Please The Masses
                                                     27




1. The „Popular‟ tab

2. Tracking the trends




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins        4/25/12
28

                                        • The Popular tab is the most popular pins on
 Pinning to                               Pinterest
                                               • Tells you what pinners want to pin or see
 Please The
                                               • Can inspire new products or blog posts
 Masses
                                        • Take note of the photos as well as the descriptions



 The Popular
 Tab

 What’s popular can
 guide you!




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                           4/25/12
29

                                        • Keep a running list of popular themes in your area
 Pinning to                               of business

 Please The                             • The Popular tab as well as other sections change
                                          quite often each day, just like people‟s opinions
 Masses


 Tracking the
 Trends

 Keep track of what
 is trending




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                      4/25/12
Pinterest Tools
                                                     30




1. Source code

2. Pinreach




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins        4/25/12
31

                                        • www.pinterest.com/source/yoursite.com
 Pinterest                              • Tells you what people love most from your site or a
 Tools                                    competitor site

                                        • Let‟s you know what kind of content to make sure
                                          you pin 100% of the time

 Source
 code

 Finding what
 people love from
 your site




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                      4/25/12
32
                                        • www.pinreach.com

 Pinterest                              • Tells you what people love most from your site or a
                                          competitor site
 Tools                                  • Let‟s you know what kind of content to make sure
                                          you pin 100% of the time
                                        • Can see if the time is paying off
 Pinreach

 Finding out what
 works and how to
 increase your pin
 power




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                      4/25/12
33
                                        Boards

 Pinterest
 Tools


 Pinreach




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins   4/25/12
34
                                        Pins

 Pinterest
 Tools


 Pinreach




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins   4/25/12
35
                                        Influential Followers

 Pinterest
 Tools


 Pinreach




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins              4/25/12
36
                                        Influential Followers

 Pinterest
 Tools

                                           • Check out what is trending
 Pinreach                                    and who

                                           • You can change your
                                             Pinterest username and
                                             check out the competition

                                           • Watch your stats to make
                                             sure you are getting out
                                             what you are putting in.




Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                        4/25/12
Find me Online
                                                      37

                                     Prime Publishing, LLC in Northbrook, Illinois
                                     www.primecp.com

                                     CraftGroup: FaveCrafts, FaveQuilts, AllFreeBeadedJewelry,
                                     AllFreeCrochet, AllFreeKnitting, AllFreeSewing,
                                     AllFreeCrochetAfghanPatterns, AllFreeHolidayCrafts,
                                     AllFreeChristmasCrafts, CreativeIncomeBlog, StitchandUnwind,
                                     FaveCraftsblog
                                     FoodGroup: RecipeLion, MrFood, AllFreeSlowCookerRecipes,
                                     FaveHealthyRecipes, AllFreeChickenCasseroles, AllFreeCopyCatRecipes,
                                     RecipeLionblog
Twitter: @spazzgirl
pinterest.com/spazzgirl
                                     scollins@primecp.com - business
                                     simone@spazzgirl.com - personal
 Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins                                              4/25/12

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Pinterest presentation virtual conference 0412

  • 1. 1 HARNESSING THE POWER OF PINTEREST FOR YOUR BUSINESS Indie Biz Chicks Virtual Conference April 25, 2012 Presented by Simone Collins from Prime Publishing Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 2. About me! (who the heck is this chick?) 2 Simone Collins Director of Social Media & Editorial Director Prime Publishing, LLC in Northbrook, Illinois www.spazzgirl.com Twitter: @spazzgirl www.pinterest.com/spazzgirl Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 3. 3 1. Generates more referral traffic to Pinterest websites than YouTube, Google+, and Linkedin combined. Facts 2. Hit 10 million US monthly unique visitors faster than any other independent site. 1. There are almost 12 million users 2. 9 million monthly Facebook connected users 3. Users spend more time on Pinterest than Facebook or Twitter 4. Over 80% of pins are repins 5. 47% of US consumers have made a purchase based on a pin Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 4. The Pin Down (What we are going to cover) 4 1. SET UP FOR BRAND POWER 2. POWER PINNING 3 . M A K I N G B O A R D S T H AT A R E N ’ T B O R I N G 4. FOLLOWING AND GETTING FOLLOWED 5. NETWORKING 6 . P I N N I N G TO P L E A S E T H E M A S S E S 7 . P I N T E R E S T TO O L S Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 5. Set Up For Brand Power 5 1. Choosing a name for your account 2. Choosing an avatar photo 3. About section 4. Adding your links, linking your account Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 6. 6 My personal account – my name and URL is spazzgirl Set Up For Brand Website account – username & URL is brand name Power Choosing a name & URL Blogger account – her name & blog name with blog URL How will people find YOU? Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 7. 7 My account – my photo, which I change infrequently. Set Up For Brand Website account – we use only our logos, always. Power Choosing an avatar Blogger account – uses her logo everywhere How will people recognize YOU? Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 8. 8 • You have 2 ½ lines of text to convey to a user who Set Up you are and why they would want to click to your site, Facebook account, or Twitter. For Brand • Use strong words to convey what you have to offer Power on your site as opposed to here on Pinterest. • We have „Free Projects‟, „We feature weekly giveaways‟ • Keep it brief and concise, straight forward, and in the The About same voice as your business. Section What do you want people to know about you? Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 9. 9 • You can easily connect and promote: Set Up • Twitter • Your Website For • Your Location Brand • Facebook Pages • Currently, you can only sync your personal Power account • Be sure you aren‟t hiding from search engines Adding Links Where can people find you? Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 10. Power Pinning 10 1. What should I pin? 2. How much should I pin? 3. Making your pins the best. 4. Hashtags work great! Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 11. 11 • Ask yourself, what do people search for? Power • What do I have of value? Pinning • What will be of value to people who follow me? What should I pin? Pinning content that makes people like you! Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 12. 12 • You must pin to get a repinned. Power • Follow the 80/20 rule of social media. • Vary your times of the day that you pin content. Pinning • If you‟ve spent a long time working on a project, article, new product… it deserves the 2 minutes to pin it. How much • Make sure you are offering the Pin It button on your site and utilize the bookmarklet feature. should I pin? If you pin it, they will click. Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 13. 13 • Pin descriptions should be very keyword heavy. Power • Make sure they encourage people to want to click through, pretty is great but being valuable is way Pinning more important. • Keep them short and sweet. • Use brand names or author names when possible. How to Make your Pins the best Descriptions and tags Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 14. 14 • Normal Hashtag rules apply, no more than three, Power use sparingly • Use your most powerful words Pinning • Use in context where applicable • Add words that are not easily added in context to your description Hashtags work great! Help pinners find your content by using hashtags Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 15. Pin Examples 15 Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 16. Making Boards That Aren’t Boring 16 1. Categories 2. Titles and descriptions 3. Choosing board themes Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 17. 17 • Every board should be in a category. Making • Adding boards on the fly will not categorize them. Boards • Make sure your board themes are true to the category. • Place the board in the category that it will perform best. Categories Placing boards in categories helps the search immensely. Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 18. 18 • Short and concise titles work best Making • Use your most powerful words Boards • Write descriptions that add to the calue of the title of the board. • Use keywords that people search for on Pinterest in your description. Titles and Descriptions Describes the board as well as makes it more searchable. Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 19. 19 • Board themes should follow editorial schedules Making • Follow the trends Boards • Break down your pins into smaller categories Choosing Board Themes What kinds of boards should you post? Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 20. Following and Getting Followed 20 1. How to find people to follow 2. Following boards or people 3. How to get people to follow you Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 21. 21 Following • Research your & Getting competitors, who are THEY following Followed • Follow people in your network • Follow your best followers How To Find People to Follow Who should I be following? Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 22. 22 • Follow boards that will be useful to you Following • Don‟t blindly follow a person & Getting Followed Following Boards, not People Being choosy about what you follow Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 23. 23 • Let people know you have a Pinterest account Following • Tweet or Facebook your pins & Getting • Use a Pinterest feature in your newsletters Followed • Add Pinterest to your email signature How To Get People To Follow You You have the boards and pins, now what? Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 24. Networking 24 1. Contributor boards 2. Setting up a “pin club” Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 25. 25 • You can only add people who you already follow Networking • Email them to invite them to collaborate on a board together • Boards appear on all accounts Contributor Boards Adding people to your boards will cut out some work and help you cross promote Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 26. 26 • You can only add people who you already follow Networking • Will increase the exposure of your links across multiple channels • Boards appear on all accounts Setting up a • Setting up the club: “pin club” • Email them to invite them to collaborate on a board together • Form a group of fellow indie biz owners Working in your network to • Decide on number of links each person can promote your submit each week work, goods, etc. • Send links with the same subject line each week Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 27. Pinning to Please The Masses 27 1. The „Popular‟ tab 2. Tracking the trends Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 28. 28 • The Popular tab is the most popular pins on Pinning to Pinterest • Tells you what pinners want to pin or see Please The • Can inspire new products or blog posts Masses • Take note of the photos as well as the descriptions The Popular Tab What’s popular can guide you! Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 29. 29 • Keep a running list of popular themes in your area Pinning to of business Please The • The Popular tab as well as other sections change quite often each day, just like people‟s opinions Masses Tracking the Trends Keep track of what is trending Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 30. Pinterest Tools 30 1. Source code 2. Pinreach Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 31. 31 • www.pinterest.com/source/yoursite.com Pinterest • Tells you what people love most from your site or a Tools competitor site • Let‟s you know what kind of content to make sure you pin 100% of the time Source code Finding what people love from your site Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 32. 32 • www.pinreach.com Pinterest • Tells you what people love most from your site or a competitor site Tools • Let‟s you know what kind of content to make sure you pin 100% of the time • Can see if the time is paying off Pinreach Finding out what works and how to increase your pin power Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 33. 33 Boards Pinterest Tools Pinreach Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 34. 34 Pins Pinterest Tools Pinreach Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 35. 35 Influential Followers Pinterest Tools Pinreach Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 36. 36 Influential Followers Pinterest Tools • Check out what is trending Pinreach and who • You can change your Pinterest username and check out the competition • Watch your stats to make sure you are getting out what you are putting in. Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12
  • 37. Find me Online 37 Prime Publishing, LLC in Northbrook, Illinois www.primecp.com CraftGroup: FaveCrafts, FaveQuilts, AllFreeBeadedJewelry, AllFreeCrochet, AllFreeKnitting, AllFreeSewing, AllFreeCrochetAfghanPatterns, AllFreeHolidayCrafts, AllFreeChristmasCrafts, CreativeIncomeBlog, StitchandUnwind, FaveCraftsblog FoodGroup: RecipeLion, MrFood, AllFreeSlowCookerRecipes, FaveHealthyRecipes, AllFreeChickenCasseroles, AllFreeCopyCatRecipes, RecipeLionblog Twitter: @spazzgirl pinterest.com/spazzgirl scollins@primecp.com - business simone@spazzgirl.com - personal Harnessing the Power of Pinterest - Simone Collins 4/25/12

Notes de l'éditeur

  1. Thanks for joining me today to talk about one of my most favorite tools (and ways to blow time) on the internet, Pinterest. My name is Simone Collins and I am the Social Media Director as well as Editorial Director for Prime Publishing. Prime has 17 websites and 3 blogs in the craft and food areas. We currently have 3.5 million subscribers to our newsletters, 12 million page views, and over XXXX people across our social media networks.
  2. So, first off, why do we want to use our valuable time on Pinterest? Here are some really great facts about the site that really drive home how important it is in the world of the internet. For us, here at Prime, Pinterest is the top source of organic traffic to every site we operate. For some of our sites, that translates to 20,000 hits a week which is huge and why we spend time on it. Pinterest has been the fastest growing social media network to ever hit the internet. (Point 1) (Point 2) With 9 million people using it connected to Facebook, that just increases the social web even more and the power of friend referral is the strongest selling point on the web. (Point 3) It’s no secret that 68% of Pinterest users are women. Which explains all the cute puppies and pictures of Ryan Gosling. So, plenty of at home moms are spending their nap time breaks on Pinterest instead of Facebook or Twitter. (Point 4) This is the key, which is why you have to pin your own promotions and work to get it out there to be repinned. (Point 5) With the power of the friend referral, Pinterest has resulted in lots of money being spent, in fact, recently there was an article about how Pinterest is the biggest traffic source for retailers now as well. So, if you have something to sell, Pinterest is a place to be. Now on to the nitty gritty.
  3. Alrighty, her is the Pin down, or the Low down of what we are going to be covering.
  4. Alright, let’s look at some examples of names and URLs.
  5. When choosing an avatar, especially for your brand, I think the #1 most important thing is be consistent across social media. If people know your face, then use your photo. If you use a really cool logo on your blog and never post photos of yourself, use the logo and always use the logo. Don’t change your photo too often if you are using a photo of yourself. I once had someone keep showing up in my Twitter feed that I didn’t recognize the photo and actually got kinda annoyed that someone was appearing that I really didn’t think I was following. Turns out it was a very good friend of mine, but they had changed their photo so often, I would have to really pay attention to the user name and lord knows with all those tweets flying around all day, that just ain’t happening. People come to recognize brands by the photo and then look for those photos when perusing social media sites. I generally change my photo before I am going to an event or conference where I am going to run into people. I WANT people to recognize me, so I usually update my photos then. Other than that, it stays the same.