Episode 68 of the DSMSports Podcast w/ Jamie O'Grady on the growth of The Cauldron Behind Quality & Distribution

Best Of...Jamie O'Grady on the
Digital and Social Media Sports Podcast
Jamie O'Grady, Founder and Managing Editor of The Cauldron, was the
featured guest on episode 68 of the DSMSports Podcast.
What follows are some snippets from the interview. Hear the full episode
on www.DSMSports.net or download it on from iTunes Store podcasts
or on Stitcher and other podcast apps.
Enjoy...
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Jamie's career path (In addition to running The Cauldron, he is
also a full-time IP lawyer!)
English major in college considering teaching, but decided to
go to law school on a full scholarship, practicing law since
2001 → Also did some writing for MLBAM in NYC at the
same time and some stringer and blogging for the NY Times
“I was able to cut my teeth in getting access to the Knicks and
Nets and that really fueled my interest in launching my own
media property.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

On working his ass off with two full-time jobs:
“The response we have received from the readership and from
the media folks and athletes and owners has been
tremendous, so (all the time and hard work) is worth it.”
Jamie grew up a big sports fan, but admits he does not watch
sports as much now anymore because he doesn't have time
→ “My passion has diminished while running the
business...”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

“It was a way to avoid this notion that I was only going to be a
lawyer. I don't particularly enjoy being a lawyer...Getting
involved with the New York Times and MLBAM was really a
way to see if there were other opportunities out there that
would better leverage my skill set.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

On the genesis of The Cauldron
“I was approached by someone senior at Medium on Ev Williams's team
(co-founder of Medium, co-founder of Twitter)...They were interested in
launching a bunch of different publications in various sectors (including
sports)...and they asked me to pitch them some ideas on what it might
look like...
“I had been kind of noodling on...the athlete content itself...I was really
excited about the prospect of working with The Medium folks because
their platform is really pretty next generation...and I thought it'd be a
good opportunity to get exposure for something, because launching an
property is really a challenge now...”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

“I just thought it was a neat opportunity to put out cool, different,
unique, compelling content; and do it via a startup (at
Medium)...(it was the intersection) of opportunity and
entrepreneurialistic intent...
I wanted to do player content. For many years, I thought that was a
space that needed to be explored. The Players Tribune
launched a few months after The Cauldron launched and
initially I was kind of bummed about that, but it occurred to me
very quickly there was going to be more than enough
opportunity to tell stories because there are just so many
amazing athletes out there that have stories that are untold...
[Several outlets] can find room in the same box.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

On what The Cauldron is all about with leveraging crowdsourcing in
addition to athletes/celebs/influencers
“When you have influencers (players, celebrities)...if they have a
following, its one thing to submit a piece and have...an editor
ghostwrite something, that's one thing...When they actually have an
account on the platform, I think there's more credibility there and
there's a natural validation that what you're reading is real. So I
thought that the Medium, because you (use Twitter and Facebook
credentials) to log in for the first time...you're migrating your followers
from big platforms...so you've got a built-in audience from inception.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

“The crowdsourcing of content is also important for us. We have so
many loyal fans of The Cauldron, who are going to stay with us
no matter what, because they've been published by us...all
different kinds of folks that would never put themselves out
there as any sort of sportswriter or journalist, but they have
interesting viewpoints and they are well-spoken and well-
written.
We relish the opportunity to work with people like that because we
can get their stuff out there and give them editorial guidance;
and, if it makes sense...we can compensate them, as well.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

How leveraging Medium and the built-in audience affected brand
and content decisions for The Cauldron (prioritizing quality over
clicks from day one)
“Our relationship with Medium and, ultimately, SI, we're fortunate
that, in the life of The Cauldron (~ 2 years), we haven't had to
chase the clicks...I firmly believe that if the content is good and
you have distribution, then you're set. You don't need to go
chasing the clicks. That doesn't mean that scaling your digital
publication isn't important. It absolutely is and something we
struggle with all the time...how to grow bigger, faster, better
without compromising who we are. That's a challenge.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Developing and establishing the brand and the voice of The Cauldron
“I think there enough examples out there of what I don't want The
Cauldron to be...there are a bunch of companies out there with
their own distinct voice..” [Jamie talks about Barstool Sports as an
example of a different approach]...Those types of things not only
impact the vision and the voice of the company, but they also
impact your ability to grow your business. When you're dealing with
advertisers or sponsors or national partners and distributors like
Sports Illustrated. And even when you're dealing with your
[assets]...players and athletes...they're looking at what kind of
brand they wanted to be associated with...”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

“One of the things I'm most proud about is we've been really leanly
staffed. So there have been any number of occasions when we
could've really screwed this thing up, putting out stories (about
several incendiary topics)....Throughout all of that...we have not
made a mistake...We have not been [called out] by anyone...We
haven't messed up and I;'m really proud of that, considering we
don't have...a ton of resources...And we haven;t been afraid to take
on some really complicated and challenging topics.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Balancing real-time content vs. more timeless and edited and thoughtful
content
“I kind of have a baseline where 'I don't want to put out anything that (does
not) reach threshold for where it's good...anything the site puts out is
going to be good...We don't have the staff...so we can have coverage on
something, where can quickly churn out content...There is a cost to doing
business...
If you're going to have people on staff to (produce content) in real-time...it's
not easy to do that...Where we've tried to balance it out is we've tried to
have good social coverage. We've got folks that are constantly scouring
for things that are happening live we can share online (GIFs, for
example)...We've also had success in-house creating our own video
content, that has done many millions of views. That's easier and quick to
turn than a lengthy print piece, which requires resources we just don't
really have.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Helpful Tool: Lonely Screen – for recording your mobile device in
action with a visualization on your computer
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Channels and keys to The Cauldron's audience growth
“I think there's a disconnect there that most people in this business
who are trying to monetize realize. Twitter is more show than-go.
Twitter does not really drive engagement...You're not gonna get a
ton of traffic from Twitter unless you have an explosive story that's
breaking in real time...people share things, but people don't
necessarily click on things. So, if you're looking to get clicks,
Facebook is the big driver of traffic.
@njh287
DSMSports.net

“But, ultimately, there is no one solution to getting an audience...I'm of
the firm belief that...nowadays you have to be platform-agnostic.
You have to drop content wherever the audience is, whenever they
want that content, and you have to be cognizant of who that
audience is. So something that does well on Twitter may not do
well on Snapchat (for example)...
“You have to think about what your goals are and...this platform-
agnostic approach...is the future. And the companies and the
people that understand how monetization is not necessarily going
to be driven by page views in the future are the ones that are going
to survive this kind of media apocalypse that is upon us now.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

On measuring cross-platform content metrics
“If you're not tracking those metrics, then you're not going to be
successful right now. So I will say that we are actively looking to do
more of that, and to do it better than we have in the past. We've
been focused on it, but I think the more you do, the more
comfortable you become at understanding of where you've gotta
drop content...to be successful.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

The Cauldron's partnership with Sports Illustrated
“This whole business is about relationships...I have relationships at
SI..Andy Glockner is my Executive Editor and my Mr. #2...I think
Sports Illustrated was and remains interested in being with The
Cauldron because of the quality of the content we put out. Sports
Illustrated' name and brand still has a lot of value and credibility...I
think them partnering with us was legitimate validation for the
concept, and the quality of the work that we do...It benefits both
sides...We hope we an take the relationship to even higher levels
going forward.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Whether The Cauldron seeks to actively differentiate themselves from
competitors
“It's a bit of a challenge if you're trying to put a good product and
simultaneously worry about what your competitors are doing. I'm
aware of The Player's Tribune and what they pout out. I'm aware
Uninterrupted, Vice's Clubhouse, etc...but they don't really concern
me and stop me from getting where I need to go. I think this thing will
really stand on its own merit...there are a lot of great stories out there
to tell. Story-telling can take a lot of great forms...so I think that we
have done a good job by dipping our toe into a few different buckets
of content. And I think we've been successful at everything we've
tried. It's just a matter of scaling our business and continuing to grow.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

On superstar athletes creating their content houses
“I think when you go into that top tier of athlete, it becomes a different
ballgame altogether because there are other ancillary business
concerns that may get in the way of good story-telling. Everything is
strategically organized in a way to maximize value of the player. Do I
think good story-telling is something that will help them achieve their
maximization? Absolutely. But if you're talking about LeBron or
Kobe...these are guys that are in a different stratosphere than other
athletes. Not to say we can't do that. We've published Steph
Curry...But just based on our size and resources, we've sort of
focused on maybe some players that some of our competitors are not
looking at. But players are not exclusive to...(publications)...They're
able to work with us, it's just a matter of finding the right stories to tell.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

How players stories come together
“Early on, we didn't have name recognition, so we had to literally go
knock on doors...it's a two-way street now at this point.”
“(Stories) depend on...the player. Ultimately, my goal is to help them
craft a story that is going to resonate. Something that is going to be
compelling and raw and real. And that can take many shapes and
forms (co-writing, hanging out with them, writing themselves and
editing, interviews)...
Obviously we are hyper-aware of everything going on in the sports
world, so if there's something that's really interesting or hot that I
think makes sense for a particular guy or girl, I'll reach out...You've
got be willing to be told 'no.'”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

How The Cauldron decides which topics to cover
“When you run a business like this, you kind of know what's going
viral. But it's not always about the traffic, it's about the quality.
[Jamie cites recent piece about NFL linebacker Na'il Diggs and
player finances and advising that took off unexpectedly, and a Josh
Gordon story from a while back that blew up, predictably]...The
issue is maintaining a level of quality in the level of athlete content
you produce, so you've got a body of work (other athletes
see)...and say, that's where I want to be. Which is exactly what
happened with Steph Curry – he came to us. He aid 'I want to write
something and I like your stuff...'”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Balancing player content vs. in-house and crowd-sourced content for
The Cauldron
“That's a balance...it impacts you when you go out there looking to
raise money. Which we have, we've fielded acquisition offers and
funding from VC's...there is that push-pull. You want it to be big,
but you also want it to be good.
@njh287
DSMSports.net

“This creates a friction. This is also important with respect to people
that want to be writers in the digital space...it's very difficult to
monetize editorial...So when you have folks out there that are
really talented freelancers...I'm all for that...but there is a certain
inflection point where you know that even if something is really
good, its just not necessarily going to appeal to a ton of people, so
the upside on it and the return isn't there.
That's a challenge. I have to balance my own bottom line...versus my
creative side that wants to see people get exposure for good work
and get recognition...If you can drop one player piece per day,
that's good...I'm not making any judgments on the competition, but
I'll stand by our player pieces, even if they're less frequent than
other sites.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

On branded and sponsored content
“It's a big factor. It's something that those who want to survive this
thing will have to do and do it well. But it's not easy to do...The
ability to connect with the target audience that that company wants
you to connect with is an art form. Especially younger people,
they're going to see right through the BS...If you're able to create
content that really resonates with them...you have to find the right
stories ,the right assets to use...That's absolutely going to be a
challenge.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

The future of publications with content like The Cauldron mixing pros,
influencers, and crowdsourced content
“We certainly have much larger aspirations than what we're currently
doing...I want to do a lot more video. I want to do more podcasts. I
want to ramp up editorial...I'm not quite sure this will work for other
sites, other entrepreneurs just because there's so much involved here,
not only on the content creation side, but also on the distribution side
and the relationship side. You really need to have people who are able
to wear multiple hats...”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

“Can this concept apply to music? I think this already does apply to
music. There are several properties out thee (already)...whee you
have well-known influencers who are taking control and putting their
own content out...But how you align all these interests and bring those
under (the same) umbrella...that's not easily accomplished. And we're
not all the way there yet either, but I've got some idea about how to
get across the finish line.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Share-able Stat: 72% and 5:02 –> The average video completion rate
and time spent on site for The Players' Tribune
@njh287
DSMSports.net

The most popular piece of content The Cauldron has published and
the most popular (but less predictable) piece of content The
Cauldron has published
Josh Gordon piece = most popular
One that surprised = “When we put out Jeremy Affeldt's retirement
announcement. That piece was not a traditional retirement
announcement...it was more 'Hi I'm Jeremy Affeldt, I'm retiring,
here's what I won't miss about baseball.' That was a really fun thing
that just blew up. There' a guy who is not the mot well-known lefty
reliever ever, but is a really well-spoken dude and has some really
interesting views..”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

The sports story Jamie wishes would just go away
Deflategate → “This I a really interesting time in history, generally.
There' s so much going on between the election, international
strife, the environment, and craziness...Yeah, we like to use sports
as an escape...[but] this is such manufactured drama and who
cares?....I've heard enough about this.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

The most memorable sports event Jamie witnessed in person the
most memorable one he watched on TV
In person → The Yankees winning the World Series in the first year of
the new stadium against the Phillies
On TV → “It's not the greatest, it's actually the most painful. The
game 7 in the '94 NBA Finals with the [John] Starks misfire
game...that was my 18th birthday and I was a huge Starks fan and
a big Knicks fan...that was tough. I'll never forget that. That was
life-altering.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Jamie's #1 tip for an aspiring sports journalist
“Manage your expectations...This is the kind of business that requires
you to really love what you do. Because you're not going to get
rich as a sports journalist and you;'re not going to have an easy
time making your way in the world. If you're talented and you care
about it and it's hat you want to do, then by all means go for it. But
just do it with eyes wide open and don't think you're going to
become the next Bill Simmons...there is just far too much
competition and there are not enough legitimate good roles to go
around....If someone is set on doing it, that's great, but just
understand what you're getting yourself into.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

The active or retired athlete that Jamie would most like to see
published on The Cauldron that has not done so yet
“The best kind of person you can get is someone who's reclusive.
Someone who hasn't really spilled the beans yet, so to
speak....Someone like Barry Bonds, if he was going to come clean
with everything....Putting me on the spot, I'm not really sure Patrick
Ewing is my favorite athlete ever in any sport...He doesn't want to
do it right now, but hopefully worlds collide and we get him...”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Which pro sports team or athlete stands out in creating good content
for fans
“I think LeBron probably comes to mind first. He has such a robust
organization. He's got things covered from all angles. He's the gold
standard...It probably helps he's (one of) the best 2-3 players in the
world...He's a guy that really gets it. He's very smart. He only
associates with those that are aligned with his world view. He does
it the right way.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

The non-Cauldron or Sports Illustrated writer that does the best job on
social media and why
Drew Magary → “The type of content he puts out, it's almost required
that he interacts with his following. He dos it really well. He knows
how to push buttons...He's not only really talented, he's also the
everyman that everyone can relate to...[and different] than Bill
Simmons...”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

The #1 sports event on Jamie's bucket list to attend
The Master's (Jamie has already been to a Super Bowl!). Jamie also
mentions The British Open
“If I can blow up the Cauldron and be really independently wealthy,
then I can take a golf writing gig and just do the Majors. That's the
goal.”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Jamie's favorite thing to eat while watching sports
Pizza
“Chicago pizza is not pizza.” Jamie prefers New York-style pizza,
particularly in New Haven, CT (Sally's, before they closed)
@njh287
DSMSports.net

If Jamie could pick one team go on a title run, which would it be?
The Knicks → “The irony I that I don't have a lot of time to watch
sports...but I try to watch as many Knicks games as I can. I just
think that's a bond that is never going to be broken...I'm long-
suffering and I will stay perpetually suffering”
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Jamie's Social Media All-Star to Follow
Jim Cavan (@jpcavan)
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Where to find Jamie and The Cauldron on digital and social
Jamie is @jamieogrady on Twitter (and he is verified!)
@TheCauldron on Twitter, on Facebook, and Instagram
https://thecauldron.si.com/
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Thanks so much to Jamie O'Grady forjoining
the Digital & Social Media Sports podcast!
For more info on the podcast, check out
http://www.DSMSports.net and follow me @njh287
@njh287
DSMSports.net

Episode 68 of the DSMSports Podcast w/ Jamie O'Grady on the growth of The Cauldron Behind Quality & Distribution

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Episode 68 of the DSMSports Podcast w/ Jamie O'Grady on the growth of The Cauldron Behind Quality & Distribution