The goal of this webinar is not to train the viewer to interview a child in an investigation; however, the content will help the viewer understand the complexities of interviewing child witnesses and victims and what education and training is needed.

1. Interviewing Children in an
Investigative Setting:
More Than Meets the Eye
Bruce Pitt-Payne

2. Bruce Pitt-Payne
• RCMP investigator from 1991-2017
• Adult and child interviewer
• Trainer – investigations and interviewing
• Currently: consultant and teacher

3. Poll Question #1
Have you received training in
adult interviewing and/or child
interviewing?

4. Presentation Objectives
• To speak from my perspective as a PRACTITIONER
• To explain
– The goals and objectives of a child interview
– that interviewing children is a specialty which requires
extensive training and practical experience
– Some of the differences between adult and child interviewing
– The training required and where to find it
• Encourage the viewer to seek proper training and to know what
that training should look like
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5. The Evolution of Investigative
Interviewing
• What it was like when I began my career in the early 1990s
– Structured approach, almost a protocol
– Minimal training, if any, available
– Training was almost “rote” in nature
– Emphasized “doing” as opposed to “understanding”
• What it looks like now
– Framework
– Training available from many reputable sources
– Scientifically-based
– The best courses include realistic scenario training
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6. Poll Question #2
What type of investigator are
you?

7. What is a Child Investigative
Interview?
• Meaningful conversation with a child to learn as much as possible about
something that happened, whether further investigation is required and
what steps that investigation should be comprised of
– We can’t make informed decisions without information
• It may be used in any situation where a child has either been a victim of
or witnessed the act
– Criminal offences such as assault (physical and sexual), threats and
theft
– Bullying or harassment

8. Who should it be used on?
• The legal definition of child may differ amongst various jurisdictions
and is often based on age alone
– Canada: 0-12
• We are more interested in the age groups that specifically require a
child interview and that depends upon the individual child’s
development
– Under 12
• 0-6 requires experienced interviewer
• 6-12 less experience required but must have received training
• Be aware that there may be children older than 12 who would benefit
from a child interview

9. Goals of a child interview
• To obtain information that is
– Complete
– Reliable (free of interviewer contamination)
– Accepted in Court or other tribunal
• Obtained in a manner that does not cause pain and suffering to
the child
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10. Objectives
• To obtain information about:
• P – eople
• L – ocations
• A – ctions / conversations
• T – imes
• O – bjects
• To learn from the child:
• What happened and whether it constitutes an offence or
wrongdoing

11. Understanding the Investigative
Process
• Review the elements of any potential offences
• “Road map” to knowing what must be learned during the interview
• Example: Bullying at school
• The national definition of bullying for Australian schools says:
– Bullying is an ongoing misuse of power in relationships through repeated verbal, physical
and/or social behaviour that causes physical and/or psychological harm. It can involve
an individual or a group misusing their power over one or more persons. Bullying can
happen in person or online, and it can be obvious (overt) or hidden (covert).Bullying of
any form or for any reason can have long-term effects on those involved, including
bystanders.Single incidents and conflict or fights between equals, whether in person or
online, are not defined as bullying.
– Behaviours that do not constitute bullying include:• mutual arguments and
disagreements (where there is no power imbalance)• not liking someone or a single act
of social rejection• one-off acts of meanness or spite• isolated incidents of aggression,
intimidation or violence.
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12. Elements
• Elements of Bullying and EXCEPTIONS:
– ongoing misuse of power in relationships through repeated verbal,
physical and/or social behaviour that causes physical and/or
psychological harm.
– It can involve an individual or a group misusing their power over one or
more persons.
– Bullying can happen in person or online, and it can be obvious (overt)
or hidden (covert).
– Behaviours that do not constitute bullying include:
• mutual arguments and disagreements (where there is no power
imbalance)
• not liking someone or a single act of social rejection
• one-off acts of meanness or spite
• isolated incidents of aggression, intimidation or violence.
• So, what must we learn during the interview to believe bullying occurred?
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13. • P – eople: a person or persons (individual or group)
• L – ocations: location if in person / online
• A – ctions / Conversations: misuse of power; verbal, physical or social
behaviour; causes physically psychological harm
• T – imes: ongoing, repeated
• O – bjects: laptop, pictures, mobile phone, apps
• If the exceptions can be ruled out, then, we have an offence that
requires further investigation.
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P.L.A.T.O.

14. Child Development
• Children develop at different rates; however, there aren’t any absolutes
• Generalities:
– Children under 3 generally won’t have a memory of events (infantile amnesia)
– Younger children are more susceptible to suggestion and leading questions
– Younger children may not understand the idea of “different perspectives” or “different
opinions”. The believe everyone must view the world exactly as they do
– Younger children might not understand concepts such as : time, detail, proximity,
distance, age, in/out, top/bottom
– Younger children might be able to comprehend what is being said but be unable to
effectively express themselves
– Younger children might lack the vocabulary to communicate well
• Result: interviewing extremely young children is often frustrating and
increases improper or, at times, unethical intervention
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15. Child Memory
• Under 3…infantile amnesia
• Influenced by suggestive behaviour or language
• May lack detail because of attention or language deficits
compared to adults
• Generally, the accuracy is comparable to an adult
• May benefit from a “practice interview”
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16. Establish Reason for the Interview
• In non-leading, non-suggestive manner ask the child to
tell you the reason for the interview
– Jimmy, what did you come to talk to me about
today?
– Jimmy, why did your mom bring you here today?
• This should elicit a brief description of the incident
using only the words of the child
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17. Questioning
• KISS Principle
– Appropriate language for the child
– No leading/misleading questions
– No complex questions
– No multiple questions
– No forced choice questions
– No opinion or statement in question
• Don’t introduce anything that has not been previously mentioned by the
child…includes word choice!
• Use simple, non-suggestive drawings (ginger bread people) as aids…NOT
DOLLS!
• Use a FUNNEL APPROACH

18. The Question Funnel (Dr. J. Yuille)
Probing
5WH
Open
T-ell E-xplain D-escribe S-
how
Closed

19. Funnel Approach – Opening
Instructions/Prompts
• Request a FREE RECALL “Start at the beginning and tell me everything
about (use the exact wording the child used to describe the incident)”
• Listen until the free narrative has finished
• Develop the narrative using:
• Breadth Questions: “What else happened?”; “What happened next?”
• Depth Questions T.E.D.S. – OPEN PROMPTS – THE TOP OF THE
FUNNEL:
• Tell me more about ________
• Explain what you meant by ________
• Describe ____________
• Show me what “the push” looked like

20. The Funnel – Probing Questions
• Probing Questions: 5WH
– Who, what, where, when, why and how…..then return to
OPEN PROMPTS
• EXAMPLE:
• Interviewer: Where did this happen?
• Child: At the library
• Interviewer: Tell me more about that.
• Child: Well, I was sitting in the computer areas at the library downtown
when this kid from school came up and hit me for no reason…

21. The Funnel – Closed Questions
• Designed to elicit “one-word” or “yes/no” responses
– Was anyone else there?
– Had you ever been there before?
– Then, revert back to the OPEN PROMPTS (T.E.D.S.) to probe/develop further;
• “You said, “a guy with dirty clothes” was there”, “TELL me about that”
• Full Example:
– Interviewer: Was anyone else there?
– Child: Yes
– Interviewer: Tell me about that
– Child: The guy with the dirty clothes was there
– Interviewer: Okay, so the guy with the dirty clothes was there, tell me about that

22. Poll Question #3
Have you been taught that you
can accurately detect
deception?

23. Ability to Deceive
• The ability and desire may be present but young children are
unable to use complex deception
• Our ability to detect deception is as accurate as flipping a coin

24. Rules
• Allowed to say, “I don’t know”
• Allowed to say, “I don’t remember”
• Allowed to say, “I don’t understand”
• Only talk about “real” things today
• Discuss what truth means (keep it simple):
– “What happens if you lie at home?”
• Confirm understanding of concepts :
– Under/over; in/out; ….. Use objects as
aids
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25. Documenting the interview
• BEST PRACTICE:
• Audio &video all contact with the child
– Captures all the information accurately (full detail but no interviewer
bias)
– Allows for assessment by: interviewer, supervisors, prosecutors,
Defense, judges, experts
– Allows for self-improvement
– Some jurisdictions: may be used as evidence at trial
• Lack of video could render the interview useless
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26. Seizure and Retention of Evidence
• Must retain all items and documents:
– used to plan for the interview
– used during the interview proper
– created during the interview (sketches, drawings)
• All original audio and video files

27. Poll Question #4
Have you ever given evidence in
court or other type of
hearing/tribunal?

28. Scrutiny at Court or Other Hearing
• You will be assessed by the Courts on your skills
and training
• Be prepared to explain:
– Your training and experience
– The model you use (you should be able to
explain all the components)
– Your knowledge of child memory and
development
– Proper questioning technique
– All exhibits were seized and retained properly

29. Practice
• Interviewing children is a
perishable skill
• Courses and seminars are only
the beginning.
• You learn by trying and failing
(LEARNING) after the course.
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30. What Training Should Include
• Child development
• Child memory
• Components of the semi-structured framework:
– Planning & Preparation
– Legal Considerations (jurisdictional)
– Pre-narrative Phase (rapport, explanations, establishing reason for
interview, rules)
– Free-Recall Phase (open-ended prompt followed by funnel-based
development)
– Close (professionally and empathetically)
– Assessment Phase (Interview & interviewer)
• SCENARIO TRAINING – CRUCIAL
• Most reputable courses are from 3 to 5 days
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31. Training Providers
• Hugues Herve – The Forensic Practice (Step-Wise Model)
– Contact: www.theforensicpractice.com
• Dr. Kim Roberts (Wilfred Laurier University)
– Contact: kim.p.roberts@gmail.com
• CCAA (Canadian Child Abuse Association & Centre for Investigative
Interviewing-ONLINE)
– Contact: aliceg@ccaa.org
• NICHD Protocol (National Institute of Child Health and Human
Development)
• Dr. Sarah MacDonald (Sheldon Kennedy Child Advocacy Centre)
– Contact: sarahmacd@gmail.com
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32. Thank-you for Participating in Today’s Webinar
Bruce Pitt-Payne
(604) 908 - 0120
brucegpittpayne@gmail.com
Contact us at i-Sight
j.gerard@i-sight.com