Recommandé
Contenu connexe
Tendances
Tendances (20)
Similaire à Behold your god 1 what is god really like
Similaire à Behold your god 1 what is god really like (20)
Dernier
Dernier (20)
Behold your god 1 what is god really like
- 1. What is God really like – 1 Deeper Issues
- 2. A Reaping Message Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice…
- 3. Behold your God – The Loud Cry Isa. 40:9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
- 4. God’s Glory – His Character Isa 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. Isa 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
- 6. Contradictions and Inconsistencies? 1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. To this fact everyone agrees – God is Good! However there is a quick reminder and caution that God is also just. The thinking that is behind this warning is that the sinner should beware and the saint should not become complacent, for God can and does come to a point where He punishes the rejecter of His mercy by actively bringing about death and destruction, sometimes by very painful and cruel means.
- 7. Introduction Many teachers of God’s Character today are presenting a wonderful message of the non- violence of Jesus. They rightly portray Jesus as the revelation of the Father. They correctly instruct us with regard to the nature of the final destruction of the wicked. What do they do with the rest of it? • all of God’s apparent involvement in the Biblical killing; • God setting up the violent kingdoms of this earth with their various arbitrary laws; • the commands of God to His people with regard to the use of violence, as we see: a) in the Mosaic civil code; b) with regard to how they should deal with internal dissensions and; c) concerning going to war with their enemies.
- 8. Introduction Did God put people to the “sleep death”? “by word”—giving the command to another to kill - is still killing. “Old Testament Theocracy” Does God have death in Him to mete out? Can it be said that He gave instructions to people to kill, yet does not have death in Him at all?
- 9. Best test of Character How our enemies are treated. Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
- 10. Good to Bad Scale
- 11. Good to Bad Scale God burns the lost in hell forever – this was a concept especially prevalent in the Dark Ages and to this time within some groups. The very idea has likely helped turn many people in to atheists. It certainly is not consistent with the concept of a loving God. God burns the lost for a short time – just long enough to get the job done. This is referred to as Annihilationism and would be favored by many in such groups as mainstream seventh-day Adventism who favor the traditional legal model of the gospel. God doesn’t kill in the final judgment – but He has killed people (first death) in emergency situations when it was in the best interests of His people (for example Uzzah, Ananias and Sapphira) God does not ever kill anyone - with either the first or the second death. In this view, it is the consequences of sin itself that brings forth death. God saves everyone in the end - including His enemies. (Universalism) One would seriously question the need to go through what this world has if that is the end result. This website takes the position that “God saves everyone” is going too far and is not supported by scripture.
- 12. “So did Christ suffer God’s active wrath or His passive wrath on the cross? Certainly He suffered God’s passive wrath – God’s abandonment of sinners to the results of their sins. . . . Did God take an active hand in the death of His Son? . . . it would certainly be consistent for God to have taken an active role in the death of His Son on the cross. . . . Christ suffered God’s passive wrath on the cross and very likely His active wrath as well.” Moore 15.
- 13. “We learn several lessons from…biblical stories about natural disasters. First,…we learn that Satan rather than God is often the cause of disasters. However, when human beings reach a certain point in their evil ways, God may solve the problem by bringing about a natural disaster that destroys them. But if the disaster truly is from God, He will warn the people ahead of time. If they repent and change their evil ways, He may change His mind and refuse to bring about the disaster. If the people as a whole do not repent, He will provide a way for those who are loyal to Him to escape. William McCall, Signs, May 2010.
- 14. How is the Law understood Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
- 16. Theocracy Claims Many of us have heard the question: “Why doesn’t God act this way now?” and the quick answer we often hear is….. “Because we are not under a theocracy.”
- 17. Moral Influence Theory of Atonement The Moral influence theory of the atonement is a doctrine in related to the meaning and effect of the death of Jesus Christ. In this view, the purpose and result of Christ's death was to influence mankind toward moral improvement. This theory denies that Christ died to satisfy any principle of divine justice, but teaches instead that His death was designed to greatly impress mankind with a sense of God's love, resulting in softening their hearts and leading them to repentance.
- 18. Why would He not command this final generation of the “remnant elect” also in the use of violent means, as He did in the first theocracy? Why would they not advance toward the antitypical promised-land by military conquest as did ancient Israel? Has God changed His methods? Three options.
- 19. How do we resolve the difficulties regarding God’s commands to His elect in the conquest of the earthly Canaan vs. taking possession of the New Earth, of which Canaan was a type? WE CAN: 1) take up the sword to quell the enemy; 2) declare that God changes His methods or; 3) find out how we are misunderstanding God’s role in the Old Testament, so that we can harmonize all.
- 20. How do we resolve the difficulties regarding God’s commands to His elect in the conquest of the earthly Canaan vs. taking possession of the New Earth, of which Canaan was a type? Jesus said, “I and my Father are One” (John 10:30) “I change not” (Mal. 3:6). “Jesus christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” (Heb. 13:8). PONDER THIS: God is right because He is Eternal
- 21. Some of the hard questions: the wars of Israel, dealing with internal dissensions, civil laws (stoning, eye for eye, etc.), God establishing rulers and authorities of men over men, etc.
- 22. Law designed for our good. To protect and hedge us in. Make holes through transgression God honours our free choice
- 23. Satan gains access through breach in law God often blamed
- 24. Continued rebellion leaves the sinner unshielded and unprotected from Satan’s attack
- 25. Ideal Circumstance “Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.” (Eph 6:16)
- 26. If they do not or will not fit themselves into the law by fulfilling it then, ultimately, God will end up being the One Who is hurling “fiery darts” at them:
- 27. Israel chooses the sword Many people, when they read of all the wars that ancient Israel, God’s people were involved in, have a very hard time reconciling that with a God of love. The Bible does record many wars and much killing but have we correctly understood God’s role in that history?
- 28. Appeasing an angry God Traditional Legal Model – to satisfy the wrath of an offended God in the sense of making payment to offset the injustice He feels over sin. Biblical Healing Model – the Bible does not use the word in relation to God. God does not need to be appeased in order to change His attitude towards us. He loves with an everlasting love.
- 29. The Gift of Violence? Conclusions some have drawn from reading the Bible: “There is no room to deny God’s preference for violence as a solution to wickedness.” “Because God commands violence, it is righteous, because God is perfect.” In light of the advance of the Christian religion in the western nations we should “rejoice that He has given us this incredible gift with which to vanquish our enemies.”
- 30. The God Who Uses Proactive Violence …is a God who, by proactive measure, will: 1. use weapons of physical force by His own hand in the realm of nature; 2. commandeer demonic forces to work His will; 3. raise up military forces of the enemies of His apostate people in order to punish them; 4. set up “dark kingdom” nations and rulers to suit His purposes; 5. command His people in the use of violence.
- 33. We defeat the heart of the great controversy theme if we represent God as using violence to achieve His purposes. This would mean that force and violence are part of His principles of governance and character. Irreconcilable contradictions. Produces atheists. The case of David as an example, who could not build the house of God because of his violence.
- 34. We have only one perfect photograph of God, and this is Jesus Christ (MS 70, 1899).
- 35. Christ is a TOTAL, NOT PARTIAL, Revelation of God Did Christ come to present a partial view of God? Was the OT revelation the “stern side” of God and the NT revelation the “soft side” of God? “All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son.” Testimonies 8:286. “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.” John 17:3.
- 36. Christ is the Total Revelation of the Father “Then Jesus answered and said to them, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.” John 5:19. “WHATEVER” “IN LIKE MANNER”
- 37. Christ is the Total Revelation of the Father Whatever Jesus sees the Father do, the Son also does in like manner. How much did Jesus see the Father do? Was His knowledge of God complete? “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.” John 5:20.
Notes de l'éditeur
- Seeking for clarity on a number of issues related to the Great Controversy When calamities happen
- Son of man – the 4th Angel. The same as the Angel seen in Rev. 18. Since the fourth Angel of Rev. 14 is Christ, and it is the same Angel of Rev. 18, they must be doing the same work. Thus the Loudcry message is a Revelation of Jesus Christ – the outshining of the Father’s glory Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69.1}
- It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth. {COL 415.3}
- In 2013 the modern hymn “In Christ Alone” made headlines for its lyrical references to the wrath of God and atonement theology. A hymn committee with the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) wanted to add the song to their new hymnal, Glory to God, released this fall. But in doing so, the committee requested permission from the song's writers, Stuart Townend and Keith Getty, to print an altered version of the hymn's lyrics, changing “Till on that cross as Jesus died/the wrath of God was satisfied” to “Till on that cross as Jesus died/the love of God was magnified.” The songwriters rejected the proposed change, and as a result the hymn committee voted to bar the hymn. “The song has been removed from our contents list, with deep regret over losing its otherwise poignant and powerful witness,” committee chair Mary Louise Bringle told The Christian Century. The “view that the cross is primarily about God's need to assuage God's anger” would have a negative effect on the hymnal's ability to form the faith of coming generations, Bringle explained.
- I think in a general way people kind of accept that God is not responsible for sufferings, and that there is a divine reason for it. But in the area of God’s direct or indirect commands to put down rebellion by force is what causes some bother.
- Many messages about God’s Character today present wonderful things about the non-violent ways of Jesus [CLICK] and that He is the perfect image of the Father. [CLICK] These teaching ministries even show us how God is not one who tortures the finally impenitent in the process of the fires of second death but that there is a natural progression of cause and effect. [CLICK] Our problem is that we do not hear these teachers saying much about some significant issues in violence which we read about in the Bible. We are interested in knowing more about how to reconcile what we understand to be the non-violent character of God with the following: [CLICK through and read bullets]
- Some teachers stay silent on many of these issues but when asked outright, they will tell us that God did in fact play a killing and destroying role by proactively using the “sleep death” to “time them out” and part of this would have been God killing by proxy, [CLICK] or “by word,” in His instructions to His people [CLICK] in the Old Testament theocracy. But note that killing by word, by giving orders or being a part of the chain of command and executive of that system, is still killing. This seems unsatisfactory to us, still portraying God as one with a mixed character, having not only life, but also death, in Himself. What do we say to all of this? [CLICK] [read onscreen point]
- When calamities happen the Hindus say its Karma The Christian state it is an angry God The atheist says its just your time And a whole lot of different opinions
- Those who are steeped in the view of a violent God can end up with some horrific conclusions. Signs of the Times editor, Marvin Moore says: [CLICK] [Read quote] Signs magazine, as official teaching instrument of church doctrine, continues to support this view of God, as we may read in a 2010 article:
- [READ ONSCREEN] “We learn several…” If they repent, He may change His mind and not bring the disaster? Wow. Remember how our magazine editor said, “it would certainly be consistent for God to have taken an active role in the death of His Son.” Amazing. This is what the professing “remnant church” is telling us about God. Is this the kind of “consistency” of character that we want to develop?
- Which model a person holds to very much affects their understanding of the character of God. The Traditional Legal Model: God designed His law and imposed arbitrary penalties – ultimately, death – for violations which are called sins. Since He is a God of justice, evil stirs up His anger or wrath which must be appeased by a sacrifice including the shedding of blood. Those who finally reject salvation come under the awful curse of God who hates sin and will finally take vengeance by smiting them with fire from heaven – the second death. A sinner whose guilty conscience brings conviction for his sinfulness can confess and be granted forgiveness because the ransom has been provided to legally cancel the debt. The propitiation brings atonement for the sins, the record of which is then erased from the books of heaven. The repentant sinner, by faith, is justified and declared to be righteous. Having received salvation, he grows in sanctification towards perfection and, in the final investigative judgment, he will not come under condemnation. The Healing Model God designed His law as the law of life, violations of which have intrinsic, natural consequences leading towards death. Those who rebel against His law of love will exhibit that rebellion in unrighteous acts – sins. This state of sinfulness causes condemnation in the conscience and has punishment built into it. When a person persists in rejection of and distrust in God, He honors that free-will choice and in “anger” leaves the sinner to the consequences (effectively, the penalty) of his choices
- This is unfortunate, because that is not what is meant by a theocracy.
- That Jesus as God enters our world chooses to live a moral life, even to the death of the cross, and that moral influence is enough to deal with the sin problem. This is advocated by some COG teachers because of their inability to show God’s justice, without making him responsible for acts of destruction. This misses out on the strength and power of sin to corrupt us, and sees Jesus’ life and death as just a sham and martyrdom. It does not address the change of heart experience, just the influence of His acts and deeds of mercy and kindness.
- Furthermore, we must consider the scenario of the last generation theocratic movement of God. As they, the 144,000, enter the time of final crisis and find themselves surrounded by the enemies of God we would have to ask the question: [CLICK] Why would He not command this final generation of the “remnant elect” also in the use of violent means, as He did in the first theocracy? [CLICK] Why would they not advance toward the antitypical promised-land by military conquest? It is not taught in the Adventist faith that this is how God ends the great controversy. [CLICK] Therefore, does this not say that in Jesus, God has changed His methods? He used violence (apparently) with the first Israel but not with the second. [CLICK] We have three options, here:
- Read onscreen question. [CLICK] and read “WE CAN:” [CLICK] and read through the three options. The first option may seem facetious but you might be surprised how popular the idea is in mainstream Christianity. Have you ever heard of “Dominionism?” This is the Christian equivalent of Islamic Shariah Law and we understand that it is actually what the final generation of God’s elect are going to face from those who will think to slay them in the service of God. The second option…[CLICK] to advance slide
- If we have a changeable God, then what are we saying about His character, about the integrity of Jesus’ words, [CLICK] “I and my Father are One,” knowing that [CLICK] God declares His unchanging nature (Mal. 3:6) as does the writer of Hebrews, [CLICK] “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” (13:8)? [CLICK] PONDER THIS: It must be that in all of this the message of a God that is One, Eternal, and Perfect--who functions according to the immutable law which is a transcript of His character--would be undermined. Think of it: If God is One, then Jesus and the Father are never doing anything any differently from each other. If God is Eternal, in light of Jesus’ declaration that He is the same through all eternity, then Jesus and the Father have always done things the same way. If the Godhead is Perfect, then no situation could ever arise in which the old way would have to be laid aside and another way come in to achieve God’s purposes. Therefore if God had to speak commands to kill in the Old Testament, which He did—we are not saying He did not do that, as some teach—if God commanded ancient Israel in the use of the sword and He is not going to command the final generation elect to wield the sword to assume their inheritance and if God never changes, then the change has to be found elsewhere. This is our subject. We are dealing with human hearts and there is where the change must take place, so that we take up our place in the kingdom through completely non-violent means, through loving our enemies, not running them through.
- This is a big subject and I am glad we can share some of our understanding with you. In the examination of God’s loving character questions concerning His consistency are raised when we look at His involvement with violence. God’s commands to kill are particular points of inquiry that must be addressed and I believe that the subject needs to be covered very early in our explorations of the truths of God’s character and attributes. [CLICK] [Read onscreen] [CLICK] [Read FE quote] Indeed, those who start to learn these truths can get very excited at the new views of God opening up to their understanding but as [CLICK] soon as they start to share with their brethren the non-violence of God, they get stumped with the questions regarding all the bloodiness in the wars of Israel, dealing with internal dissensions, the civil laws, God setting up kingdoms of men which rule by force, and such. We are going to spend some time first dealing with the concept of the kingdoms of this world, the nations and their rulers, as establishments of God—as “God-ordained,” and then come back to close with an exploration of God’s commands to ancient Israel regarding the execution of violence. The details of the civil laws are dealt with in other lectures.
- Some think that the Achille’s heel of the Character of God (CoG) theology has to do with God’s directives to ancient Israel in the use of violence. An improper understanding of the function of God’s will in this modality that we call the “permissive paradigm” (and we will be defining it as we go) has caused [CLICK] some modern Christians to come to the conclusion that [CLICK] “there is no room to deny God's preference for violence as a solution to wickedness” and that [CLICK] because “God commands violence, it is righteous, because God is perfect” and that [CLICK] in light of the advance of the Christian religion in the western world we should “rejoice that He has given us this incredible gift with which to vanquish our enemies!” I am not making these statements up. I am quoting them from actual discussions. I appreciate the honest clarity when people can cut right to the bottom line in making these type of statements because they expose the harsh reality of where the standard paradigm of the “destroying God” tends. Even amongst most of those who hold to the standard paradigm, these bald statements about God must seem repugnant! The reality is, there is no other conclusion that can be made when God is viewed and presented as one who deals with rebellion by use of pro-active violence; i.e.,
- [Read onscreen first, click through 5 bullets] These can all be demonstrated in the Bible, but we aren’t taking time to do that here. The first three are actually the more straight-forward arenas in which to exercise standard exegesis, wherein we may readily demonstrate that God is not actually the destroyer although often represented as such in Bible language. We aren’t delving into those areas here. (As a matter of fact, those discussions are precursory to this one and we are assuming that the reader has already a working knowledge of the theory and evidences of these.) The last two are more difficult to discern and these are where we see the function of that which we have called “permissive will,” or “permissive command.” This is in contrast to His “perfect will.”
- On every hand we get into Biblical and logical quagmires, [CLICK] defeating the very heart of SdA “great controversy” theology if we represent God as relying in any way upon—or at any time requiring the use of—violence to move the controversy forward to its righteous conclusion. [CLICK] Such would make force a constituent in His governing principles and violence a component of His character. [CLICK] To make these things part of what we would call the “attributes of God” sets up irreconcilable contradictions. [CLICK] It produces honest atheists, firm in their convictions, who render for us a horrendous litany of contradictions in their dark evangelism. Christians in the standard paradigm cannot help the Bible-reading atheist; in their feeble attempts to persuade or produce an apologetic they only inflame his repugnance and subsequent ferocity. [CLICK] Let us look at the case of David, for instance. David could not build the house of God because he was declared to be a man of violence.
- To appreciate the full value of Christ’s matchless presentation of God’s character, it is necessary to recognize how all-encompassing it was. [CLICK] Did Christ come to present a partial view of God? Was it simply a shifting of emphasis? [CLICK] Did God, feeling that He had most satisfactorily convinced men in the Old Testament of the sterner and uncompromising side of His nature, leave Christ to emphasize the qualities of love, forgiveness, and mercy? Such a view is adopted by many as a solution to what they feel would otherwise be a contradiction between the messages of the Old and New Testaments, but it is not the message of the Scriptures themselves. Therein, it is asserted that Christ’s manifestation of the Father was complete. It leaves nothing more to be shown. This is not saying that everything about God’s character can be understood in one contact with the Savior, for it will take eternity to see all that Christ came to tell. What must be recognized and accepted as truth is that the revelation of God in the face of Christ is complete. Therefore it is written: [CLICK] [Read 8T quote] This statement is specific, comprehensive, and accurate. It leaves no space for the supposition that Christ revealed only a certain aspect of God’s character or even the larger part of it. It does not admit to the notion that Christ’s ministry provided a further stage in this revelation with final unfolding to be given in the future. All that remains is for the eager, spiritual child of God through earnest study and prayer to come into possession of this richest of all treasures. Some may counter that eternal life is the richest of treasures. This is true and in its truth establishes this point, for the knowledge of God is eternal life. [CLICK] [Read John quote]
- Christ Himself declared the totality of His revelation of His Father. [Read John quote] Therefore, as certainly as His life, so filled with activity, contained nothing done of Himself or from Himself, so all that He did was of God and from God. It was the Father Who was acting out His life and character through the medium of His beloved Son. Therefore, in Christ’s every act, we see God at work and know thereby exactly what the Father does in relation to His subjects, be they sinful or righteous. This is confirmed in Christ’s words, “for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.” John 5:19. The witness of Christ here is not simply in these terms, [CLICK] “what He sees the Father do,” but “Whatever He does.” The addition of this word means that everything the Father does is included. This is a word which carries the idea of completeness, of infinitude. Therefore Christ is attesting that everything the Father does, without any exceptions, the Son does in like manner. [CLICK] We must not fail to observe the insertion of the words, “in like manner.” It adds significant meaning to the Savior’s message. It is important that we believe that Christ did upon this earth, everything the Father did. It is equally essential for us to know that He did it in like manner as the Father did it. Not only did He do all the Father did, but He did it exactly as the Father did it.
- [Read onscreen] Christ claimed complete knowledge of the ways and works of God. [CLICK] [Read John quote] What a challenge this is to the old ideas about God. Every idea in which God is seen as the destroyer of those who refuse His offers of mercy, can be sustained only if we find Christ doing the same thing. What castles of error must collapse before the onslaught of this indestructible truth! What an entirely new and glorious structure of living realities about the Father must now arise from the wreckage of those towers of lies!