WHERE TO SPOT THE SMART APPLE THAT LEADS TO PANDORA’S BOX TO PODCASTING?

WHERE TO SPOT THE
SMART APPLE THAT
LEADS TO PANDORA’S
BOX TO PODCASTING?
Phil Lu ©
Nov. 18, 2019

Podcasting is growing
at a rapid rate in 2019 in
the United States (US)
51% of US population
has listened to a
Podcast, and 49 %
actually listen from
Home right now
*Infographic provided by ©podcastinsights.com
© Phil Lu

Untapped Potential
*Infographic provided by The Inﬁnite Dial © Edison Research: https://www.edisonresearch.com/the-podcast-consumer-2019/
● Both Overall
Podcasting Listening
and Monthly Podcast
Listening has grown
steadily year after year
and it is at an all-time
high in 2019
© Phil Lu

Tech Companies are doubling down
on Podcasting
● https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/14/spotify-gimlet-anchor-340-million/
● https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/24/siriusxm-to-acquire-pandora-for-3-5-billion/
● https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/12/20959222/pandora-podcasts-now-available-website-desktop-app
● https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/10/macos-catalina-is-available-today/
● Spotify has acquired two Podcasting
companies to tap the growing market
and help in tooling for Podcasters
● Pandora just this month in November
2019 has released availability to search
speciﬁcally for Podcast on their
desktop app
● Apple just released MacOS Catalina
and Apple Podcast has its own native
app
© Phil Lu

Spotify has taken Market share while Apple
Podcast still dominates in the space
Competition is
intensifying to
take market
share for the
listener’s ear
Pandora is not listed as an individual
app and is a percentage of other.
Pandora has room to take market share
and opportunity to grow its user base in
Podcasting
Major Market Share Holders:
1. Apple Podcast: 62.9%
2. Spotify: 9.5%
3. Everybody Else: 27.6%
*Infographic provided by ©Andreessen Horowitz: https://a16z.com/2019/05/23/podcast-ecosystem-investing-2019/
© Phil Lu

Pandora is positioned to grow its Podcasting
User base
● Spotify currently leads with 248
million Monthly Active users
● Pandora has an active user base as
well where a percentage of those
MAUs could also become Podcast
listeners and increase MAUs
through on-boarding popular
Podcasts onto their Podcast
Platform
● http://investor.siriusxm.com/investor-overview/default.aspx#reports-tab2 : 10-Q (10/31/19)
● https://investors.spotify.com/ﬁnancials/default.aspx#module-quarterly : Q3 (2019)
● https://a16z.com/2019/05/23/podcast-ecosystem-investing-2019/ : Apple MAU (approx. by App Annie
© Phil Lu

User base
● With a conservative estimate of
growing the Monthly Active Users
(MAUs) for Pandora from 63.1 Million
by 3 % we can earn ad revenue per
hour to $1.89 Million
● Pandora can attempt this strategy by
getting Podcasters and their
communities to join the Pandora
platform
● https://a16z.com/2019/05/23/podcast-ecosystem-investing-2019/ : Apple MAU (approx. by App Annie
© Phil Lu

Pandora can compete to be part of the thriving community
*Infographic provided by REID HOFFMAN AND HIS MAIN PODCAST SITE: https://mastersofscale.com/
© Phil Lu
Listen on Pandora
This could be Pandora.
They should be
competing for
Podcasters and users

User base
● With a conservative estimate of taking
5% of the forecasted $659 million ad
revenue, Pandora and Podcasters can
both beneﬁt in capturing approx. $33
million of value
*Infographic provided by https://musicoomph.com/podcast-statistics/
© Phil Lu

How Can Pandora Get Podcasters and Their
community to join them?
➔ Listening to customers on what they want and testing
by creating features that will solve a need that a User
has for Podcasting which could possibly be:
◆ Users don’t know where to start to ﬁnd Podcasts
◆ Users bombarded with Option Overload and
Ambiguity of Podcast Content quality
© Phil Lu

Untapped Potential
Podcast Platforms
have an opportunity
to take on these
challenge
*Infographic provided by The Inﬁnite Dial © Edison Research:
https://www.edisonresearch.com/the-podcast-consumer-2019/© Phil Lu

Other Methods of Testing for User Behavior
and what they want
➔ Using NPS Score: Aggregate Score and ﬁnd which quality answer are
similar to see if there is recurring and large impact problem
➔ Tests to try:
◆ A/B Testing (We will try this - Provide half and half of Pandora
users with the original and the new feature and see how the
controlled and experimental groups react
◆ Smoke Tests
◆ Landing Page
◆ Wizard of Oz
◆ Concierge
© Phil Lu

User Persona
*Stats provided by https://www.podcastinsights.com/podcast-statistics/© Phil Lu

Customer Journey through Finding and Listening
to a Podcast
NegativeExperiencePositiveExperience
Unwind at home
and want to ﬁnd a
podcast to listen to
Open Podcast App and start
to search for Podcast
Individually
clicking into
Podcast and can’t
ﬁnd a review and
previewing if the
podcast is worth
listening too
Searching
through many
genres and types
of podcast and
have too many to
choose from
Going back and
forth between
podcast because
not suitable to what
you want to listen
to
Finds a podcast
and starts the
podcast
Listens to Podcast
Finish Podcast
© Phil Lu

Validating Learning Opportunity
NegativeExperiencePositiveExperience
Unwind at home
and want to ﬁnd a
podcast to listen to
Open Podcast App and start
to search for Podcast
Individually
clicking into
Podcast and can’t
ﬁnd a review and
previewing if the
podcast is worth
listening too
Searching
through many
genres and types
of podcast and
have too many to
choose from
Going back and
forth between
podcast because
not suitable to what
you want to listen
to
Finds a podcast
and starts the
podcast
Listens to Podcast
Finish PodcastTesting
features with
Hypotheses
here
© Phil Lu

Do Users want more signaling information
to determine quality of Podcast?
Hypothesis We Believe Podcasters have too many choices of podcast to choose from
because of little information to review the quality of a podcast and by adding a
tracking count of users who favorited a Podcast will result in more Monthly
Active Users listening to a podcast
Test We will implement a Collectors Count to a Podcast Album and user review on
the podcast for qualitative review
Evidence We will reinforce our hypothesis if we observe that Advertising revenue per
thousand listener hours (RPM) has increased, Pandora Ad supported listener
hours for podcasts track-length parts has increased, and
number of Users adding Podcasts to their Collection has increased
© Phil Lu

Growth Metrics
➔ Podcast adoption to %tage of total MAUs
◆ This is key indicator to test our hypothesis
➔ These would be the speciﬁcs within the Podcast
Adoption ratio
◆ Total new users
◆ Activated Users
◆ Returning Users
© Phil Lu

Metric for Podcast Adoption
● Spotify has a total 248 million
Monthly Active users and has stated
a 14% Podcast adoption rate
○ That means 34.72 million MAUs on
Spotify are listening to podcasts
● Pandora has 63.1 million MAUs
○ Assuming no growth/change in
MAU, Pandora can track Podcast
adoption rate when implementing
our Feature Idea
○ Reasonable new Tracking measure -
can look at adoption rate
© Phil Lu

➔ Pandora Ad supported listener hours - podcasts are divided in approximate track-length
parts
◆ Evaluate Time spent on a popular new Podcast after implementation
◆ Find time spent on a popular new podcast before feature implemented
➔ Advertising revenue per thousand listener hours (RPM) = ad rev/thousands of listener hours
◆ This could ideally increase if we can increase time spent on podcast
➔ Two Metrics to Track our Collectors Feature
◆ # of Add to Collection prior to feature
● Get an idea of what it is at before our test
◆ %tage change in New Collections Added with Feature - Old Collections Added prior
to feature/Old Collections Added prior to feature
● This will determine if our test is successful or not and will iterate on a new idea
through the Build → Measure → Learn feedback loop
◆ Click-Through Rate
Engagement Metrics
© Phil Lu

Monitoring and Tracking Podcast listen time
● Predicting Advertising revenue per thousand
listener hours (RPM) increase through more Podcast
Listening time after adding feature
○ In Q3 ﬁling, Pandora attributed the RPM
increase from ‘19 and ‘18 from the same
period was from new advertising products
resulting in improved monetization and
increased sell-through percentage
○ This was a 9.6% increase
● Assuming a more listener hours through Podcast
hour Pandora can continue using these advertising
products to increase the ‘20 forecast - estimating an
increase of 6% using past change and a conservative
increase in podcast adoption could lead to a forecast
increase within the same time period
Info From: http://investor.siriusxm.com/investor-overview/default.aspx#reports-tab2 : 10-Q (10/31/19)
© Phil Lu

Features Comparison Between Podcast
Platforms
➔ Before I compare features between Pandora, Spotify, and Apple Podcast I wanted to
clarify that there are other competitors out there that are excluded by design because:
◆ Limited public information available (I.E. SEC Filings, online free publications, and etc.)
● Tidal and SoundCloud are private companies who don’t have their information available for
Public
◆ The focus is on the freemium model where all 3 have all available podcast to free users and they
have a desktop app
◆ Some Platforms are Mobile only (Google Podcast)
◆ Amazon Music does not have podcasts
Info provided by: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/best-music-streaming-service-of-2019/
© Phil Lu

Features Comparison Between Podcast Platforms
Pandora Spotify Apple Podcast
Search function Yes, search bar is available at the center
top of the desktop app
Yes, search bar available just right
of the sidebar in the desktop app
Yes, search bar is available on the
sidebar in the desktop app
Dedicated Podcast Browsing Yes, after in the browse view the user has
to select view all on the right of
Recommended Podcasts to view Podcasts
Yes, on the sidebar there is a
browse section and have to select
Podcast tab to view podcasts
Yes, on sidebar there is a browse
section and all podcast come up
Add to Personal “Library” Yes, User selects Collect button to add
Podcast
Yes, User selects Save to Your
Library button to add Podcast
Yes, User selects the Subscribe button
to add podcast
View of User’s Personal Podcasts Yes, available My Collections Yes, available on sidebar under
Your Library and select Podcasts
Yes, available on sidebar under shows
List of Episodes for Podcast Yes, 10 latest episodes are provided, and
see all episodes available
Yes, all episodes available then
scrolling will reveal older episodes
Yes, Has 2 latest episodes and then a
see all to view all of them
User Reviews for Podcast No No Yes, available under Ratings and
Review of Podcast
Other Recommendations within
Podcast
Yes there is display for “Similar Podcast”
and “More from this category”
No recommendation based on
podcast
Yes there is display for “More on
[Podcast]” and “You May Also LIke”
© Phil Lu

Feature Exploration: Ideation/Prioritization
Approach
● I would work with all Stakeholders to align which features will have high impact
○ Work with Executives to review if we have the agreeable Quantitative Metrics to monitor
and track
○ Gather feedback from customers using current desktop app to understand Qualitative
Metrics
○ Work with Customer Success Team/ Support team to gather valuable information on what
they have experienced while assisting customers and utilizing the product to assist
○ Bring in Software Engineers and Product team to go through an exercise to determine which
features to focus on based on above feedback
■ Bucket the features by Level of Difﬁculty/Effort and Level of Impact to business
○ I would bring in the UX/UI team separately to discuss my wireframes to see how to get idea
to reality by taking input and asking for suggestions on how to get to mockup all the way to
high ﬁdelity prototypes for Software Engineers later
© Phil Lu

Feature Exploration: Ideation/Prioritization Approach
© Phil Lu
Larger Impact
Smaller Impact
Less Difficult to
Develop
More Difficult
to Develop
This feature is
feasible and would
provide Users with
more of a signal for
popularity of
podcast
1
This is harder to
develop because
of AI logic, but has
a larger impact for
user specific
content
2
We can do further
user research to
see if Qualitative
review of podcast is
useful for users
3
Add a Review
system with 5
star rating review
and User
Personal Review
for Podcast
Albums have a
follow count
called “Collectors
Create Algorithm
for better
recommended
Podcasts
These features would
be questionable
because it is small
impact to the business
and hard to develop
?

Wireframe: Amount of User Favorited on
Podcast
© Phil Lu
➔ Test and Monitor how many
users click the Collectors
button after:
◆ User Site-Heat Map
testing to see if they
hover over star ratings
◆ User clicks generally
around Collectors
because of baseline
number to view
➔ Review if user clicks on View
More instead of a category
➔ Use our metrics to assess
progress on our feature (3-6
month assessment)

Wireframe: User Reviews and Favorite Count
© Phil Lu
➔ Test and Monitor how many
users click the add button after:
◆ Looking at the user
reviews
◆ After they have a baseline
number on how many
people favorited the
podcast
➔ Use our metrics to assess
progress on our feature (3-6
month assessment)

Adapting Product Roadmap
Link to trello: https://trello.com/b/rx4MsXzL© Phil Lu
● Modify Road Map
accordingly with
Stakeholders
● Prioritize Backlog and
work with team to
execute on the features
we want to test during
our Iteration Planning
and Wireframing session
with Designers

User Story Development
● User stories should be simple and clear
○ Title should be short and concise and
explain the function to be built
○ Description should be a sentence with
the user persona, what they want to do,
and why would like to do that action
(beneﬁt)
○ Acceptance Criteria written in :
■ Given
■ When
■ Then
○ Wireframes/Resources Provided for
reference
© Phil Lu

Full Product Manager Sprint Lifecycle
© Phil Lu
Sprint
Iteration
● Sprint Cycle (2-Weeks)
● Engineers Develop - Pair Programming
● Daily Stand-up
● Release to Development, Staging, Production
● Review Tests we want to run
Sprint
Retrospective
● Lessons Learned
● Work with Engineers and Designers
to see what we can improve
● Monitor features and check on
metrics and customer usage
Feature
Exploration
● Working with stakeholders on
possible features
● doing User Research
● feature prioritization to prepare
for next Sprint Cycle Planning
Sprint Iteration
Planning
● Prioritized Backlog
● Develop User Stories
● Plan with stakeholders on User
Stories to work on for current
sprint
● Estimate User Story Diﬃculty
Rinse and Repeat

Iterate and Learn
★ Test hypothesis and Pivot if it is not working and go through the Sprint Lifecycle to continue validated
Learning
○ Keep trying A/B tests on new features
★ Continue to monitor metrics and deﬁne reasonable results with stakeholders
○ Use Tools like Optimizely, Segment, and Mixpanel to track progress
★ Build and learn with your team
Measure
Learn
Build
© Phil Lu

WHERE TO SPOT THE SMART APPLE THAT LEADS TO PANDORA’S BOX TO PODCASTING?

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