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Experimental Results on Thermal 
Boundary Resistance for Nb and 
Nb/Cu 
Enzo Palmieri1,2, A.A. Rossi1, R. Vaglio3 
1 Legnaro National Laboratories of the INFN 
2 Università degli Studi di Padova 
3 Università degli Studi di Napoli
0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 
1E9 
1E8 
1E7 
1st RF Test: 
@4.2K 
@1.8K 
P=200mW 
2nd RF Test: 
@4.2K 
@1.8K 
P=200mW 
Q 
Eacc [MV/m] 
quench 
Measured twice
quench 
0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 
3.5x109 
3x109 
2.5x109 
2x109 
1.5x109 
109 
Q-switch 
Q-slope 
quench 
T=1.8K 
Before Anodization 
After Anodization 
After De-Anodization 
Q0 
Eacc [MV/m] 
Q-switch 
Q-slope 
field emission
If we mirror finish the cavity 
external surface, …. 
this will behave as a Mirror for 
thermal phonons!
A mirror-like external surface will 
also decrease the nucleation sites 
for Helium boiling nucleation, 
promoting then 
the Liquid He Super-heating
If liquid He Super-heating is 
detrimental for Q(E 
), 
acc 
Should we worry more about that 
type of superheating rather than to 
the Nb H 
? 
Sh
Since the qD 
of the Cu is 
higher than the one of Nb 
and in Kapitza it plays as 푇 
휃퐷 
3 
, 
does this contribute to the fact 
that, at 1.8K, sputtered Nb 
showsn lower performances?
Outer Lead coating of a sputtered Nb/Cu 
BEFORE AFTER
Lead however did not remain attached to CU 
0 2 4 6 
108 
107 
106 
Cu1_Comparison before&after Pb 
1.8K_AfterPb 
4.2K_AfterPb 
4.2K_BeforePb 
1.8K_BeforePb 
Q 
E 
acc 
[MV/m]
Can water micro-cristallites 
on the external surface of Nb 
promote film boiling and then 
positively affect cavity 
performances?
0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 
109 
108 
107 
Nb 127 with external EP 
@ 4.2K 
@ 1.8K 
@ 4.2K After Grinding 
@ 1.8K After Grinding 
@ 4.2K After Anodization (Yellow) 
@ 1.8K After Anodization (Yellow) 
@ 4.2K After Ice Film 
@ 1.8K After Ice Film 
Q 
Eacc (V/m)
For years we have considered a cavity 
as an adiabatic system made by the 
RF fields + Nb, because the He bath 
has been considered as a stable and 
infinite reservoir at fixed temperature. 
Is it not the time now to consider 
instead the adiabatic system 
composed by RF fields + Nb + Liquid 
Helium ?
Nb/Cu 6 GHz 
cavities
The Cathodic Arc coated cavity deposited by Soltan Institute 
and INFN- Roma2 was never measured …. 
do you know why? 
Bad adherence between Cu and Nb 
is a common problem!
Tsurface 
Vacuum Nb Cu 
ΔT1 
Helium 
sNb sCu 
T4 
T3 
T2 
T1 
T0 
ΔT2 
ΔT3 
ΔT4 
 Nb Cu 
 
R P P s s 
thermal d d 
1 1 
        
TOT Nb Cu 
     Nb Cu Cu He 
 
T 
K h K h
If the adhesion of 
Niobium to Copper is not 
good, the cavity will go in 
thermal runaway!!!!
What has high solubility 
both in Niobium and in 
Copper? 
• Palladium 
• Silver 
• Tin 
• Alluminum
“Silver Cathode”
Comparison between 1st, 2nd and 3rd Nb/Cu Sputtering 
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 
109 
108 
107 
106 
E 
acc 
[MV/m] 
1st Sputtering: 
@ 4.2K 
@ 1.8K 
2nd Sputtering: 
after HPR @ 4.2K 
after HPR @ 1.8K 
3rd Sputtering: 
@ 4.2K 
@ 1.8K 
Q
Comparison between 1st, 2nd and 3rd Nb/Cu Sputtering 
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 
109 
108 
107 
106 
E 
acc 
[MV/m] 
1st Sputtering: 
@ 4.2K 
@ 1.8K 
2nd Sputtering: 
after HPR @ 4.2K 
after HPR @ 1.8K 
3rd Sputtering: 
@ 4.2K 
@ 1.8K 
Q
If we want to improve SRF 
performances 
we must study more deeply 
Cryogenics 
and precisely Heat Transfer 
mechanism from a Surface to Liquid 
Helium
If the adhesion of 
Niobium to Copper is not 
good, the cavity will go in 
thermal runaway!!!!
Acknowledgements 
• We thank F. Stivanello and V. Pastushenko for the Chemical and electrochemical 
polishing of the cavities, 
• Serguey Stark for the huge work on RF, 
• M. Martinello and M. Checchin for the sputtering and rf test

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Enzo palmieri experimental results on thermal boundary resistance for niobium and for niobium sputtered copper 2nd tuesday

  • 1. Experimental Results on Thermal Boundary Resistance for Nb and Nb/Cu Enzo Palmieri1,2, A.A. Rossi1, R. Vaglio3 1 Legnaro National Laboratories of the INFN 2 Università degli Studi di Padova 3 Università degli Studi di Napoli
  • 2.
  • 3. 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 1E9 1E8 1E7 1st RF Test: @4.2K @1.8K P=200mW 2nd RF Test: @4.2K @1.8K P=200mW Q Eacc [MV/m] quench Measured twice
  • 4.
  • 5.
  • 6.
  • 7. quench 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 3.5x109 3x109 2.5x109 2x109 1.5x109 109 Q-switch Q-slope quench T=1.8K Before Anodization After Anodization After De-Anodization Q0 Eacc [MV/m] Q-switch Q-slope field emission
  • 8.
  • 9. If we mirror finish the cavity external surface, …. this will behave as a Mirror for thermal phonons!
  • 10.
  • 11. A mirror-like external surface will also decrease the nucleation sites for Helium boiling nucleation, promoting then the Liquid He Super-heating
  • 12. If liquid He Super-heating is detrimental for Q(E ), acc Should we worry more about that type of superheating rather than to the Nb H ? Sh
  • 13. Since the qD of the Cu is higher than the one of Nb and in Kapitza it plays as 푇 휃퐷 3 , does this contribute to the fact that, at 1.8K, sputtered Nb showsn lower performances?
  • 14. Outer Lead coating of a sputtered Nb/Cu BEFORE AFTER
  • 15. Lead however did not remain attached to CU 0 2 4 6 108 107 106 Cu1_Comparison before&after Pb 1.8K_AfterPb 4.2K_AfterPb 4.2K_BeforePb 1.8K_BeforePb Q E acc [MV/m]
  • 16. Can water micro-cristallites on the external surface of Nb promote film boiling and then positively affect cavity performances?
  • 17. 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 109 108 107 Nb 127 with external EP @ 4.2K @ 1.8K @ 4.2K After Grinding @ 1.8K After Grinding @ 4.2K After Anodization (Yellow) @ 1.8K After Anodization (Yellow) @ 4.2K After Ice Film @ 1.8K After Ice Film Q Eacc (V/m)
  • 18. For years we have considered a cavity as an adiabatic system made by the RF fields + Nb, because the He bath has been considered as a stable and infinite reservoir at fixed temperature. Is it not the time now to consider instead the adiabatic system composed by RF fields + Nb + Liquid Helium ?
  • 19.
  • 20. Nb/Cu 6 GHz cavities
  • 21.
  • 22.
  • 23.
  • 24. The Cathodic Arc coated cavity deposited by Soltan Institute and INFN- Roma2 was never measured …. do you know why? Bad adherence between Cu and Nb is a common problem!
  • 25. Tsurface Vacuum Nb Cu ΔT1 Helium sNb sCu T4 T3 T2 T1 T0 ΔT2 ΔT3 ΔT4  Nb Cu  R P P s s thermal d d 1 1         TOT Nb Cu      Nb Cu Cu He  T K h K h
  • 26. If the adhesion of Niobium to Copper is not good, the cavity will go in thermal runaway!!!!
  • 27.
  • 28.
  • 29.
  • 30.
  • 31. What has high solubility both in Niobium and in Copper? • Palladium • Silver • Tin • Alluminum
  • 33. Comparison between 1st, 2nd and 3rd Nb/Cu Sputtering 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 109 108 107 106 E acc [MV/m] 1st Sputtering: @ 4.2K @ 1.8K 2nd Sputtering: after HPR @ 4.2K after HPR @ 1.8K 3rd Sputtering: @ 4.2K @ 1.8K Q
  • 34. Comparison between 1st, 2nd and 3rd Nb/Cu Sputtering 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 109 108 107 106 E acc [MV/m] 1st Sputtering: @ 4.2K @ 1.8K 2nd Sputtering: after HPR @ 4.2K after HPR @ 1.8K 3rd Sputtering: @ 4.2K @ 1.8K Q
  • 35. If we want to improve SRF performances we must study more deeply Cryogenics and precisely Heat Transfer mechanism from a Surface to Liquid Helium
  • 36. If the adhesion of Niobium to Copper is not good, the cavity will go in thermal runaway!!!!
  • 37. Acknowledgements • We thank F. Stivanello and V. Pastushenko for the Chemical and electrochemical polishing of the cavities, • Serguey Stark for the huge work on RF, • M. Martinello and M. Checchin for the sputtering and rf test