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The Product
Mindset
Jonny Schneider
2
Predicting
the future
is hard.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Edison_and_phonograph_edit1.jpg
3
…many plans are built on projections of
future prices and costs that are almost
invariably wrong
—Michael E. Porter
https://www.flickr.com/photos/worldeconomicforum/5397052359
4
In 2010,
20 to 50% of software 

projects were failing.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathancohen/4766990832
Understanding Design Thinking, Lean, and Agile, Jonny Schneider (2017)
PROJECTS
plan predictively
focus on scope, time, budget
measure outputs
manage the work
have a start and finish
ask for big-upfront-investment, 

for future benefits
6
adapt,
don’t predict.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathancohen/4766990832
PRODUCTS
use adaptive planning
focus on value
measure progress
manage the outcome
are long lived and ongoing
prove benefit to 

drive incremental investment
PROJECTS
• plan predictively
• focus on scope, time, budget
• measure outputs
• manage the work
• have a start and finish
•ask for big-upfront-investment,

for future benefits
AGILE
Build the 

thing right
LEAN
Build the 

right things
+DESIGN
THINKING
Explore the

problem
+
by @jonnyschneider
Three mindsets for
product development
Get the ebook for free!

https://thght.works/2z30TAU
Customer Satisfaction: +4 PTS (80)
NATIONAL AUSTRALIA BANK
Mobile Banking - after redesign
The browser-based w
banking app was red
like mobile web, not
This was achieved w
only. That means no
changes were requir
release outside of th
deployment governa
It doesn’t sound like
meant that changes
customers’ hands ni
than ‘normal’.
Mobile Penetration: +188% (8% to 23%)
Customer Satisfaction: +5 PTS (85)
Lessons From The Trenches
(Global Blue Experience Report)
LESSONS FROM THE TRENCHES
If a measurement matters at all, it is
because it must have some conceivable
effect on decisions and behavior.
—Douglas W. Hubbard
Measure things that matter
MEASUREMENT COMMENT
Customers will be delighted Too vague
Net Promoter Score (NPS) will increase Subject to external factors, hard
to attribute to a specific initiative
6 customer features completed Measures output, not outcome
Conversion from results page to product detail
page increases by 3% month-on-month
Good!
Basket-size for returning customers increases 

on average from quarter-to-quarter
Good!
Average time-on-site per item purchase 

reduced by 6% quarter-to-quarter
Good!
GOAL: Customers can easily find what they are looking for.
Make decisions based on learning
The illiterate of the 21st century will not be
those who cannot read and write, but those
who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.
— Alvin Toffler
Define your beliefs and assumptions
Decide the most important thing to learn
Design experiments that can deliver learning
The

Problem
Assumption
Model
Created by Jonny Schneider
and Barry O’Reilly
MONDAY
Frame the challenge and 

explore some options
TUESDAY Decide what to learn
WEDNESDAY Design the experiments
THURSDAY Conduct the research
FRIDAY
Analyse the results and 

decide what next
WEEK 1 WEEK 2 WEEK 3 WEEK 4 WEEK 5 WEEK 6
orientation 39 intercepts 65 survey
responses
campaign
design
campaign
launch
pilot plan
20 customer
intercepts
5 student
surveys
4 gym
interviews
11 intercepts
10 intercepts
Design the right experiments
Don't look for facts or answers — look for
better questions. It's the questions we ask,
and the meaning we explore, that will
generate the insights most useful to strategy.
—Dr. Jason Fox
problem demandsolution
Better to have a slow delivery team doing the right things, 

than a fast team doing the wrong things.
(combine with next slide)
‘All Together Now’
ALL TOGETHER NOW
24
Idea
Target
release
research
business
strategy
funding
planning
design
delivery
test
We can’t move the release date!
The media campaigns are booked!
Can you build less, and build faster?
W-Agile
FIRST EXPRESSION
OF A STRATEGY
DESIRED
OUTCOMES
Not W-Agile
FIRST 

STRATEGY
REFINE AND ADAPT
new
discoveries
WORKING SOLUTIONS
do
DELIVERY
check
EXPERIMENTS
THANK YOU
jonnyschneider.com/blog
bit.ly/goodreads-udtla
@jonnyschneider
For more information on ThoughtWorks please contact:
Wayne Te Paa
NAB Client Principal
Email: wtepaa@thoughtworks.com
Phone: 0416 041 772
YOUR THOUGHTWORKS CONTACT

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The Product Mindset- Jonny Schneider