“Inter-Ethnic Relations: Counseling Interventions Across Demographic Boundaries” Program Transcript NARRATOR: This next program focuses on interethnic relations, meaning relations between groups of color, as opposed to relations between whites and blacks, whites and Asians, whites and Latinos, or whites and Native Americans. Listen in as the group continues its discussion. MALE SPEAKER: You know, one of the things that I want to focus in on is interethnic, interracial conversations. What about our relationships with one another? A lot of times, we think that multicultural or race relations is white/black, white/Asian, white/Latino, white/Native American. More and more, I think that people are saying that, well, what about Asian/black, Asian/Latino, Latino/Native American, and on and on. What are issues that we need to deal with with one another in terms of our relationships with each other? FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, I think certainly prejudice and biases that have been discussed, passed on, and so on about different racial, ethnic groups. I think a lot of times we presume communities of color there's no racism, and so on. And of course that's not the case. And so I definitely think even beginning to own some of those challenges, to have some of those difficult conversations, is a first step to thinking about what emotional road blocks do we have that might come from whatever we were taught in our families, or our churches, or wherever about other racial, ethnic groups. So I definitely think that in addition to intersection of identities, it really increases the depth of our understanding of cultural competence that we can't assume as people of color we know something, or we have a certain kind of attitude. That just may not be the case. And that's a painful thing, certainly, to realize, but that's another road block to look at. MALE SPEAKER: But also, I think it underscores, I think, the utility of the competency models where we talk about awareness now is in scale. Because part of the awareness that we have to have in those ways is just because I am a member of a racial ethnic group doesn't necessarily make me immune from the biases of other people who come from those particular places. And that's a level of discussion I think that we don't have a lot of, either. MALE SPEAKER: Why do you think we don't have them? MALE SPEAKER: Partly because it's not comfortable, and partly because the focus has been primarily on African American, Asian, Latino, Indian, international against what is a predominantly white dominated society, and so that's where the focus is. And I think the focus has to be able to expand to be there in some real ©2012 Laureate Education, Inc. 1 ways. And part of what happens is-- I mean, this is something I don't forget. And I think it was Frances Cress Welsing quoting Neely Fuller when she said, if you don't understand racism and white supremacy, what i.

1. “Inter-Ethnic Relations: Counseling Interventions
Across Demographic Boundaries”
Program Transcript
NARRATOR: This next program focuses on interethnic
relations, meaning
relations between groups of color, as opposed to relations

2. between whites and
blacks, whites and Asians, whites and Latinos, or whites and
Native Americans.
Listen in as the group continues its discussion.
MALE SPEAKER: You know, one of the things that I want to
focus in on is
interethnic, interracial conversations. What about our
relationships with one
another? A lot of times, we think that multicultural or race
relations is white/black,
white/Asian, white/Latino, white/Native American. More and
more, I think that
people are saying that, well, what about Asian/black,
Asian/Latino, Latino/Native
American, and on and on. What are issues that we need to deal
with with one
another in terms of our relationships with each other?
FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, I think certainly prejudice and
biases that have been
discussed, passed on, and so on about different racial, ethnic
groups. I think a lot
of times we presume communities of color there's no racism,
and so on. And of
course that's not the case.
And so I definitely think even beginning to own some of those
challenges, to
have some of those difficult conversations, is a first step to
thinking about what
emotional road blocks do we have that might come from
whatever we were
taught in our families, or our churches, or wherever about other
racial, ethnic
groups. So I definitely think that in addition to intersection of

3. identities, it really
increases the depth of our understanding of cultural competence
that we can't
assume as people of color we know something, or we have a
certain kind of
attitude. That just may not be the case. And that's a painful
thing, certainly, to
realize, but that's another road block to look at.
MALE SPEAKER: But also, I think it underscores, I think, the
utility of the
competency models where we talk about awareness now is in
scale. Because
part of the awareness that we have to have in those ways is just
because I am a
member of a racial ethnic group doesn't necessarily make me
immune from the
biases of other people who come from those particular places.
And that's a level
of discussion I think that we don't have a lot of, either.
MALE SPEAKER: Why do you think we don't have them?
MALE SPEAKER: Partly because it's not comfortable, and
partly because the
focus has been primarily on African American, Asian, Latino,
Indian, international
against what is a predominantly white dominated society, and so
that's where the
focus is. And I think the focus has to be able to expand to be
there in some real
©2012 Laureate Education, Inc. 1

4. ways. And part of what happens is-- I mean, this is something I
don't forget. And I
think it was Frances Cress Welsing quoting Neely Fuller when
she said, if you
don't understand racism and white supremacy, what it is and
how it functions,
everything else you think you understand will only confuse you.
And so when you think about confronting the dynamics of
oppression,
oppression, to me, is an unnatural human phenomena. What it
does is it
instigates unnatural human behavior. And so what happens with
marginalized

5. groups and oppressed groups, there are two phenomena I think
are key that are
important, I think, for us to talk about around the table.
One is the identification with the oppressor, so that now, how
do I insulate myself
from the slings and arrows that I know are to come my way
from the social isms?
I identify more with the oppressor. But more importantly, I
began to then adopt
the oppressor's ideology, and it is that piece that becomes the
most dangerous,
because now, even not just between groups we're talking about
here.
So I might look at another Chicano or Latino brother or sister, I
might look at
another Asian American brother or sister, and because of my
own oppression, I
now want to oppress them as a way of trying to get closer to
what the dominant
structure is like. But what it also does is it dehumanizes me.
And it doesn't just happen between groups. It also happens
within group, so that
now as an African American male, I now think to be lighter is
better than to be
darker. To have a different kind of hair is better than that. So
I'm looking at color
and feature consciousness in our people, and is that an
appropriate maiden?
What's the standard of beauty? All based on someone else's
yardstick about
what is culturally appropriate, but I'm understanding at a deep
structural level, all
that relates to it as a consequence of those dynamics of

6. oppression.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, that's beautifully said. I really think
that makes so
much sense. And I think it's about the racial ethnic issues as
well as some of the
intersecting identities we talked about earlier. That oppression
goes very deep
and very long, and it not only affects how we see each other as
racial ethnic
beings, but as gendered beings, as sexual beings, as religious
beings, and so
on. So I think that that thought applies in so many ways across
the many ways
that we are different from each other.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, I think there's a real urgency for
our field to address
this issue, because of just the amount of violence that is going
on in
communities. And certainly if we're working with youth, we
really need to do
something about it. For example, in East Palo Alto this year,
there have been 12
deaths of youth, and it's all interethnic conflict. It's gang
related.
But still, that is a tremendous loss. And we had a youth rally
last week, and I
noticed that there were no Latinos there. There were African
Americans and
©2012 Laureate Education, Inc. 2

7. Pacific Islanders, but almost half of this community are people
from Mexico or
other Mexican Americans. And so why was that? Why not? And
how are we
going to get along?
MALE SPEAKER: See, this is something that I've been looking
at quite carefully.
And one of them is that if you look at it from a societal
viewpoint, in terms of if
you look at the worse relationships in Houston, for example, it's
not between
black and white, but between Asian and black. If you look at
during the Los
Angeles riots, when the African Americans and the Korean
business owners,

8. those exploded on the scene. And I think there was a lot of
political, social
political issues that need to be addressed.
But I think that a lot of us fear this type of dialogue which is
needed, Teresa. I
agree with you. Because of what we see as the divide and
conquer that occurs. I
mean, Thomas, you said white supremacy.
If you don't understand that we operate under this umbrella of
white supremacy,
then we will proceed these interethnic, interracial conflicts
differently. Like, look at
these people can't get along themselves. Why should we
change? They're
equally guilty, and yet it is almost that this society sets it up
structurally where we
get such a small piece of the pie, and the groups of color have
to fight over it.
And unless we operate from that framework, we will often times
blame the
groups who are [INAUDIBLE]. I mean, there's no doubt, as
people of color, we
have biases against one another. We have prejudices. We have
misinformation.
This comes out in our interaction.
But we are also almost puppets in the systemic operation that
goes on.
FEMALE SPEAKER: I would agree. It's been such a battle in
terms of our larger
society, and even in psychology and counseling and education,
to put
multicultural issues front and center. So I think that has a lot of

9. reasons why we
haven't had these dialogues, because this is such a battle just to
get to this point.
And I think it's important that we at least stay at this point and
move forward. And
so how we structure these dialogues, because I think there will
come a time for
us to have those dialogues, but not in a way that destroys the
things that we've
achieved so far.
MALE SPEAKER: But it's not just-- I mean, I want to add to
that, because it's not
just dialogue that we've got to engage in. I think what Daryl
makes a particular
point about in his writing is the social advocacy piece. See, part
of why stuff
doesn't change is because we're willing to at least dialogue
about it in socially
correct ways, but we're not willing to really advocate for it in a
way that allows us
to make some fundamental change in some of the ways in which
we operate,
either in terms of relationships with colleagues, relationships
with the institutions
that we engage in, or that employ us, or something else. And it's
that level of risk
I think that we've got to be willing to take.
©2012 Laureate Education, Inc. 3

10. © 2012 Laureate Education, Inc.
©2012 Laureate Education, Inc. 4
COUN 6723: Mini–Case Studies
Sue & Sue, Chapter 16, “Counseling Asian Americans and
Pacific Islanders”
Background
Jia is a 21-year-old Asian American female. She immigrated to
the United States from China at a young age. Her family worked
very hard to save money to send her to college. They have
sacrificed a great deal for their daughter, and they expect her to
become a surgeon. She is the only child. Jia’s parents own a
small grocery business in her community. Her parents do not
speak English. She is pursuing a degree in medicine but has
discovered that she is a very talented artist. Jia loves painting.
She spends much of her free time painting and attending art
shows. She has neglected her studies. If Jia’s family were to
find out about her poor grades they would be deeply shamed.
Presenting Concern
Jia has decided to come to counseling because she feels she
needs academic guidance. She shares that she has not been
doing well in her classes this term because she feels very tired.
She reports experiencing headaches and stomachaches. Jia went
to see the doctor, and he suggested seeing a counselor. She was
reluctant at first, but decided that it might be a good idea to
seek assistance to improve her study habits.
Sue & Sue, Chapter 17, “Counseling Latinos”
Background
Alberto is a 47-year-old Mexican American. He’s been married
to his wife for 27 years, and they have 4 children. Alberto

11. recently lost his job. His wife does not work, and he has no
desire for her to get a job. Alberto feels it is his responsibility
to provide for his family. His wife wants to work and help the
family, but he “forbids” it. His wife was offered a job, but
Alberto would not allow her to work. The tension is growing in
his household because they have very little left in their savings.
The couple has spoken to their priest about the stress, and their
priest referred them to counseling.
Presenting Concern
Alberto and Angela decided to speak to a counselor about their
situation. Angela attempted to explain the concerns to the
counselor, but Alberto cut her off. He stated that the only
reason he came to counseling was because his priest said it
would be good to talk to a neutral party, but he doesn’t want
someone to tell him how to run his household. He thinks this
“counseling thing” was a waste a time.
Sue & Sue, Chapter 18, “Counseling Individuals of Multiracial
Descent”
Background
Jordan is a 14-year-old high school freshman. He is a bright
student and has always maintained a high GPA. This last year
his grades have dropped tremendously. He is failing most of his
courses. Jordan lives with his mother, and he sees his father on
the weekends. His mother is Puerto Rican and African American
and his father is Caucasian. This year he started high school in
a new district. The student body is predominantly white. He is
the only multiracial student. Jordan is having difficulty “fitting
in.” He spends most of his time alone in school. Jordan skips
class frequently, and his mother describes his behavior has
“moody.” The school principal contacted the family to express
her concerns, and she recommended family therapy and
individual therapy for Jordan.
Presenting Concern

12. Jordan grudgingly comes to his first session. He sits down in
the chair and crosses his arms. He answers your questions with
one-word responses. Jordan makes limited eye contact. You
attempt to engage him with questions about his interests. You
ask him a question about his friends, and he angrily responds, “I
don’t have any friends. No one wants to hang around with
someone like me. I’m not black enough, white enough, or
Puerto Rican. I don’t know what I am.”
Sue & Sue, Chapter 20, “Counseling Jewish Americans”
Background
Fran is 35-year-old single Jewish American female and a
successful professor. She is well published and renowned in her
profession. For many years, Fran has expressed her concerns
with her department chair regarding the scheduling of classes.
Many of the classes at her university are scheduled during the
weekends (Friday, Saturday, and Sunday), and often the classes
are scheduled during major Jewish holidays. Students are
required to attend all scheduled days to earn full credit for the
class. Through the years she taught classes during the Jewish
holidays, but has grown tired of the lack of consideration. Fran
finally put her foot down and decided not to teach during Yom
Kippur this year.
Presenting Concern
Fran decided to come to counseling to address some of her
concerns. During the session, she expresses feelings of
disrespect by the administration and her colleagues. Fran tried
to address her concerns during a faculty meeting, and one her
colleagues thought the best resolution was just to schedule her
classes during “her holidays.” Fran is hurt by the lack of
sensitivity from her colleagues and for the Jewish students who
attend the university. She states, “I’ve never had to teach on
Christmas or Easter.”
© 2012 Laureate Education, Inc.